Indian Rosewood direct from Mumbai - Review

[Kim]

Dear Luthier friends,

I understand that you guys have a problem in making the payment to my bank. I hope I can do paypal but in India paypal is not a good means to take the payment for us.

The reality Ashok is that your customers are not really interested in what is good for 'you' when they are handing over 'their' money. They are more interested in what is good for them. Save the 'very' rare occasions where I am forced to use my credit card to take advantage of a 'once off' deal, I avoid buying anything from outside of Australia if I can't use Paypal.

The bottom line is that I can get wood from anywhere, but I can't get the simplicity, cost effectiveness and security offered by paypal via any other means when it comes to international money transfers. I have had things go wrong in the past and to my relief paypal have stepped in on my behalf to get me a refund even when the vendor has gone to ground and will not respond to email. On the other hand international 'bank' transfer offers your customer nothing but inconvenience, high fees and to top it all off, no real security, for once the money has been wired they are at the mercy and good will of the vendor should something go wrong with delivery.

It is for these reasons that I refuse point blank to do business that way. Quite simply I would much rather pay more for my wood or build with local material than take the gamble.

Cheers

Kim

[kiwinoz62]

Hi,
I placed an order with Ashok last week, ANZ bank would'nt help as I was'nt a customer of theirs, I only went to them because the global Transfer bank was ANZ Melbourne, made sense to deal with the one institution.
Went to my bank Westpac, paid the $30 fee and they took care of business, now just waiting for the goods to arrive.

I prefer to use Paypal, which is so much easier & secure, I have used money transfer this time but IF my goods don't arrive they will hear my screams in Mumbai from here.

[ashparekh]

Dear Friends,

I understand that you are strongly recommending me on Paypal. Onemore problem for me with paypal here is that we cannot take more than 500$. This is a notice I have received from Paypal. One more thing is that the bank will not give me their clearence and would be difficult for me to ship.

I would not take this risk by taking money from a customer and not sending them with material. All the people who pay me are entitle to get material which they order. Further, If there is a problem in custom clearance I would be in big problem and possible that my license is terminated. This is the problem but I assure that my products will satisfy my customers.

[luke_lee]

Hi all,

I finally transfered the money, it was a hassel. I could only do it from the bank at a cost of $30 aus.

Luke

[ashparekh]

Dear luke,

Thank you for your efforts and all the luthiers friends who has done transaction with us will be receiving their material shortly. Just to inform you guys who have placed order material is leaving India on Monday. I hope you like the efforts I have put in for the material and I am sure you will like quality of woods.

[DarwinStrings]

Maybe Ashok you should write to your government and ask any other business people you know to write as well letting your government know that their atitude towards Paypal is not good for your business and what is not good for your business is not good for your government.

Jim

"From little things big things grow"....... quote, P. Kelly and K. Carmody

[ashparekh]

I understand what you mean but the government says that bank is the safest method of payment from Abroad to India. I have no clue about it but I always study the export rules of customs and know the details in and out so can never go against the rules. You know if something goes wrong and I take the payment and could not ship then the customer will always think as a matter of sheer cheating which is a problem for my business and on the top problem for my gen-unity as a supplier. We see a long term business with our customers in every sector of the world.

You know it should not happen that this company took our money and could not supply material. Today as we supply the quality and service we have luthiers who take pain and send money who have trust in us and we take 100% pain to see to it that our customers are satisfied. I personally check the material and send so you know it is limited margin of error. Anyway, our payment system is not going to change but we try to give our customers value for money and pain that they take for us.

[Kim]

Ashok,

The Indian government rules you refer to regarding Paypal look to only come into effect 'after' March the 1st 2011.

https://www.paypal-apac.com/india/

As I see it there is no reason whatsoever for you to be putting your customers through the inconvenience and expense of your current payment requirements. According to Paypal, even after the 1st of March there is nothing stopping you from receiving payments via Paypal unless they are over $500USD and that amount should be enough for you to offer Paypal as an option for those people who only require between 1 and 4 set. This would cover most people you are targeting at this forum.

Also, it is very difficult for me to understand how you can be suggesting that there is some problem with your bank accepting funds from Paypal when it is your own governments requirement under the terms of the Reserve Bank of India Guidelines to which you allude, that, "Any balance in and all future payments into your PayPal account may not be used to buy goods or services and must be transferred to your bank account in India within 7 days from the receipt of confirmation from the buyer in respect of the goods or services"

In fact the last part of the RBI guideline, the part suggesting that the money from each transaction should remain in your Paypal account until such time that your customer has confirmed receipt of the goods thereby leaving the funds within reach of the Paypal dispute resolution process should a refund be determined by them to be warranted, has me wondering if your main concern could be that if a shipment goes wrong, then you would not have the ability to prevent a reversal of the transaction and this would expose 'you' to the same risk as you currently impose upon your customers...On the other hand your current arrangements see your customers doing 'all' the running around, paying 'all' the fees, and taking 'all' the risk should things go wrong in transit...Is this the reason you are so resistant to change??

Must say that as someone who openly confesses to being all over the customs laws of your country that I am somewhat surprised you expect us to believe you know nothing of the arrangements your own government is putting in place in regards to Paypal, after all, it was a 2 second search on Google to reveal what I now know, and I do not even have a business in India.

Cheers

Kim

[DarwinStrings]

You know if something goes wrong and I take the payment and could not ship then the customer will always think as a matter of sheer cheating which is a problem for my business and on the top problem for my gen-unity as a supplier. We see a long term business with our customers in every sector of the world.

If something goes wrong and you could not ship the goods, then it would be a simple matter of a Paypal refund, Paypal is set up to be very convenient for these types of issues. I would also say that I would be much more inclined to buy from your business if Paypal was a option, I may in the future use your current method but I would feel much more comfortable with Paypal and I would also save a little money using Paypal. Food for thought anyway Ashok.

Jim

[ashparekh]

well, one more reason for me to accept bank payment is that we enjoy other bank facility to do some big transactions so if we do not show the bank that we are very much into business and we have funds coming and going regularly bank will not help us.

I therefore say that we do all our transactions through banks. In India banks play a major role in business so it is very important for us to do bank transactions only. I am really sorry but my system of payment will remain through bank only and I am sure the pains my luthier friends will take in payment I will see to it that they are fully satisfied with my service.

[Kim]

well, one more reason for me to accept bank payment is that we enjoy other bank facility to do some big transactions so if we do not bank will not help us.

I therefore say that we do all our transactions through banks. In India banks play a major role in business so it is very important for us to do bank transactions only. I am really sorry but my system of payment will remain through bank only and I am sure the pains my luthier friends will take in payment I will see to it that they are fully satisfied with my service.

Sorry Ashok but considering that your own governments legislation requires all funds to be transferred from your Paypal account to your Indian banking account within 7 days of your customer confirming receipt of goods, I do not see what possible impact using Paypal could have upon your ability to "show the bank that we are very much into business and we have funds coming and going regularly"....

My concern remains that you are miss leading the members of this forum by suggesting that Paypal is not a doable option for you. My concern is also that you are leaving yourself in a position where you keep your customers money no matter what happens in relation to product or delivery of goods. My concern is that by imposing all responsibility upon your customer, that you are seeking to evade the Paypal dispute resolution process because you have had experience with that process before and you were not happy with the outcome.. or their fees.

I would not normally be so harsh Ashok but it is just that your reputation, or more specifically the reputation of "Parek Exports", is not so squeaky clean. I am more than happy to provide evidence openly on this forum so that all can see comment from past customers who have not been happy with you or your product and what is worse, have been left high and dry by you when they've made you aware of their dissatisfaction.

To all, I make the following comment as a member of the ANZLF and not as an administrator...In the interest of bringing some realistic balance to this thread I remind you that this fellow is not an ANZLF approved vendor. This is not because he has not made repeated attempts to become one, in fact the 'foot in the door' approaches and angling from this fella borders on spam in my own opinion. Before you buy wood from this bloke, you need to ask yourself why he continues to refuses to accept Paypal???...So far he has provided not one single good reason why and has also misrepresented the truth by suggesting here that there is current legislation in place preventing him from doing so. The 'only' reason I can see for myself which stands out like a randy horses dick on Jack Russel is that he wants all the cards to remain in his hand should the case be that things do not turn out as his customer expects....Remember rule one of buying OS via the internet...NEVER! send money by wire...buyer beware tis all I can say..

Cheers

Kim

[kiwigeo]

well, one more reason for me to accept bank payment is that we enjoy other bank facility to do some big transactions so if we do not show the bank that we are very much into business and we have funds coming and going regularly bank will not help us.

I therefore say that we do all our transactions through banks. In India banks play a major role in business so it is very important for us to do bank transactions only. I am really sorry but my system of payment will remain through bank only and I am sure the pains my luthier friends will take in payment I will see to it that they are fully satisfied with my service.

With due respect your banks need a kick up the proverbial.

If you direct the PayPal payments into your bank account then how is that much different from the money being directed to the same account directly from the customers bank account???? The money sits in your bank account regardless and your bank makes money out of same while it's sitting there.

[Kim]

If you direct the PayPal payments into your bank account then how is that much different from the money being directed to the same account directly from the customers bank account????

There is no difference Marty, its just an excuse seeking to cover up the fact that there is no valid reason whatsoever for a good honest wood vendor not to accept Paypal.

Cheers

Kim

[seeaxe]

I have not bought anything from Mr Parekh but it seems to me he is getting a bit of a hammering here.

Mr Parekh is entitled to use whatever system of payment he likes. We can buy where we like, so if we dont want the hassle, just buy the wood from some one else.

I have had similar hassles buying stuff from Australia, paid large amounts of money to the bank to send the money, then had the sellers bank in Aus deduct another wedge for the trouble of receiving it. So its not just India.

As for the approved vendor thing, I would have thought that if you choose to use his method of payment but you are happy with the materials that arrive then whats wrong with that?

Has anyone bought from Mr Parekh, and not been happy with what they have been sent?

Cheers
Richard

[tim mullin]

Remember rule one of buying OS via the internet...NEVER! send money by wire...buyer beware tis all I can say..

Cheers

Kim

Seems to me you've been spouting off rather more than that, Kim. As others have said, Parekh is entitled to do business under any terms he wants, and his potential customers are free to walk away. I'm with Seeaxe on this: if ya don't like it, then don't do business with him, but please give the rest of us credit for the brains to make our own decisions and quit goin' on at the guy.

You've insinuated you've got information to demonstrate that the Parekh doesn't provide acceptable service. That claim is worthless unless you put the information on the table. I'm sure if an ANZLF member has a negative experience with Parekh's service, that we'll hear from them directly.

Not too often I get on my soap box, but this soap opera has become rather distasteful.

T

[kiwigeo]

Speaking as a forum member and not in my capacity as a Moderator/Admin.

Kim's delivery might offend some in here but I agree with everything he's said so far. The vendors initial response to questions as to why he doesn't use PayPal were IMHO not satisfactory. Kim did a quick Google search to find out the facts on the RBI guidelines regarding use of PayPal....and like Kim I find it hard to believe the vendor wasn't aware of same.

I don't consider Kim's questions and comments as "goin' at the guy". He's asking question we all should be asking when dealing with an overseas vendor and where the customer seems to be taking all the risk in the transaction. In fact I don't see how this vendor could loose out if there was a problem delivering the goods.



Regards Martin

[kiwigeo]

Seems to me you've been spouting off rather more than that, Kim. As others have said, Parekh is entitled to do business under any terms he wants, and his potential customers are free to walk away. I'm with Seeaxe on this: if ya don't like it, then don't do business with him, but please give the rest of us credit for the brains to make our own decisions and quit goin' on at the guy.

Tim,

With due respect there are quite a few members who are new to luthiery and the business of buying tonewood from overseas vendors. I know of more than one newbie who's been screwed around by an overseas tonewood supplier. Ive had the experience myself and in that case I wish I'd asked Kim and others in here about the character in question before doing business with him. I've still got the pile of mouldy shit wood sitting on my shelf as a constant reminder of the whole debacle.....along with the equally mouldy "replacement" shipment he sent me later.

With regards to the vendor who is the subject of this thread...you might consider the possibility that some of us have had more dealings with him then you might think...and not necessarily in a capacity as customers. Personally I'm not impressed with vendors who's first posts to a forum are straight out spam and who then continue spamming after being requested not to do so by the forum moderators/admins.

Regards Martin

[DarwinStrings]

I'm with Seeaxe on this: if ya don't like it, then don't do business with him, but please give the rest of us credit for the brains to make our own decisions and quit goin' on at the guy.

I agree Tim we do have the brains to make our own decision. If however a vendor wants to use this forum to discuss the way they do business and the system they have in place then I feel they should be able to answer even the most difficult of questions from the most cantankerous members. This has been very interesting for me as I do consider buying wood from Ashok but only because of recommendations from members of this forum and what I see on the pages of this forum. Unfortunately I have seen no satisfactory answer to the question of why Paypal is not a good option. Paypal keeps the ball in my court.

Jim

[Daniel_M]

Hi All,

I am new to the forum, so sorry if I am speaking out of place but I was just short of ordering wood from this supplier. I agree with both Tim and Kim. In that we are all probably big enough and ugly enough (some more than others) to decide whether we want to engage this supplier – however, I firmly believe that we would all like have the greatest possible information about the likely outcomes of the transaction. Kim has highlighted a number of possible inconsistencies with the message provided by this supplier and for that I am grateful. At this stage, according to those that have raised these questions, no satisfactory answer has been provided. I am particularly interested in the unfavourable experiences that Kim talks of.

Some food for thought….I was speaking to buddy last night who is a professional luthier and he is always on the look out for more suppliers of tone wood (he has WAS in a bad way).

I actually mentioned this supplier and when he asked about how I found out about him I mentioned this forum and the good experience that people have had and reported on here. Rightly or wrongly, I would suggest that he now associates this forum with that supplier –I am not suggesting that there are business links between the two or anything similar. It is just a link that people will inherently form in their own minds. This mental link will only become stronger if he becomes a ‘preferred supplier’.

I should also mention that I talk of the other suppliers on here as well

Daniel.

[Kim]

Some food for thought….I was speaking to buddy last night who is a professional luthier and he is always on the look out for more suppliers of tone wood (he has WAS in a bad way).

I actually mentioned this supplier and when he asked about how I found out about him I mentioned this forum and the good experience that people have had and reported on here. Rightly or wrongly, I would suggest that he now associates this forum with that supplier –I am not suggesting that there are business links between the two or anything similar. It is just a link that people will inherently form in their own minds.

Daniel.

Precisely my concern Daniel,

I do understand that Allen started this thread in good faith as a result of a good experience he had with Parek Exports, but reading all of the glowing endorsements that have followed which I am sure are more the result of provocation from the urgings of Mr Parek than they are of people feeling a genuine need within themselves to sing his praises, I thought it was time for a little balance so that should someone on this forum in future 'not' be so 'over the moon' happy with goods received, it cannot reflect badly upon this forum by association which could quite easily be the case should we allow an open topic relating specifically to this particular vendor to be censored in such a way that it only supports his venture.

After initially joining this forum and making his first post nothing but spam, this bloke had to be told a number of times there after not to pimp his wood here as he is not a preferred vendor of this forum. I also seem to recall that he was pulled up for spamming our membership list via PM and email harvesting 'after' he was told not to do so. He had then approached the moderators team of this forum via Allen requesting that he be considered as a preferred vendor however he was not accepted. I voted against enlisting this vendor because there is evidence, most of which is readily available via a Google search, to suggest this vendor does not meet selection criteria for association with the ANZLF. There was further evidence that this particular vendor had 3rd party association in a group buy at this forum which not only turned sour, but soured the prospect of further group buys being arranged through the ANZLF which is very sad because this was one of the core reasons for this forums inception.

During my "sprouting off" I have asked very relevant questions of this vendor in relation to his refusal to accept Paypal payments which remain to this point unanswered. In fact it is fair to say that this vendor has been somewhat misleading in providing those excuses so far furnished. In light of what I have read elsewhere on internet forums, and my own negative experience that was contributed to by this vendor, I remain of the view that the only answer to the question of 'why' this vendor refuses to use Paypal is to negate any chance of a fair and equitable resolution in case of a disputed transaction.

As suggested earlier, I will gladly post my own negative findings about this vendor openly in this thread at 'his' request...but I must say that he has become conspicuous by his absence since I first made that invitation. I will also add that I agree our members should feel free to buy their wood from whom ever they choose however it should also be understood that this forum is not a free resource to be used as a billboard by those uninvited to do so. No one pays me for the time I put in as one of the admin team of this forum when I get in and help people out with the day to day of the ANZLF. I am not prepared to have that time and effort exploited by someone whom I feel is not worthy. Have your own opinion and make your own choices by all means, but please do not attempt to stifle mine, because in the context of this particular thread, they are not only valid, but add the balance required to allow people to know that should they buy from this particular vendor, it is indeed their own choice to do so and has nothing whatsoever to do with the ANZLF.

Cheers

Kim

[ozwood]

I'll way in with My 20 cent's worth, everyone else has, Pretty simple really If ashok is happy to pick up the shit and bits business, or rat's and mice sales of those who are prepared to run the Gauntlet of Handing over your hard earned with no real recourse if it all goes wrong , then He has made his choice and that likely to be as far as his buisness will progress.

HOWEVER if he really wants to start Pumping out Serious amounts of wood, to the good members of this fine forum who's learned Opinion I very much value , Then he will Accept PayPal, He will send us Top Quality Wood and "EARN the Right" to Join the few called ANZLF prefered Suppliers .

It's Like this, if you had Paypal I would have ordered some already, But at the Moment , I think I'll Just pay the Extra and get it from STEW MAC .and Quietly watch for a while to see how it all pans out for the Gauntlet runners.



Paul.

[seeaxe]

might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb i suppose.....

Kim, rest assured the kind and amount of work that you and Bob and the other moderators do without the rest of us even knowing about is very much appreciated, at least by me. The spam situation is yours to decide on as moderators , and for that reason alone, I support you 100% that this forum should not afford Mr Parekh "preferred vendor" status. I can understand you guys being pissed off about that.

Regarding the Paypal issue, everyone is welcome to their opinions as to why he is doing what he is doing of course, you have stated yours and Mr Parekh his.

But as a potential customer, I would prefer some facts, so I would like to repeat my earlier question.

(Putting aside the hassle of bank transfers, as we all go into that with our eyes open)

Who has ordered materials from Mr Parekh and not been satisfied with the standard of materials and or standard of delivery?
Has anyone paid him money and not got a satisfactory result?
Who has had a problem and what was/is it?

Let's hear from you please.

Cheers

[kiwigeo]

Who has ordered materials from Mr Parekh and not been satisfied with the standard of materials and or standard of delivery?
Has anyone paid him money and not got a satisfactory result?
Who has had a problem and what was/is it?

Let's hear from you please.

Cheers

See Kim's earlier post: "There was further evidence that this particular vendor had 3rd party association in a group buy at this forum which not only turned sour, but soured the prospect of further group buys being arranged through the ANZLF which is very sad because this was one of the core reasons for this forums inception."

[Taffy Evans]

Hi all, I'll have another go at posting my findings with this dealer. I'm on holidays in Adelaide at the moment so not following posts as I would at home, however I did write an account of my dealings with Parek earlier but my laptops battery died, I lost the lot, and did not feel like writing all this again at that time, but now I will.

I was first contacted about two years ago for my business [before being a member of the forum] and I was a bit suss about the deal so declined, just a gut feeling.

When I read Allens favoural account of his dealings I took the time to listen to the offers made when I was emailed by Parek some six months ago or so. However, Allan [ozziebluesman] had already made me aware of his transaction issues so I trod very gingerly.

I got a quote for my order of rosewood sets and as we all know it was very reasonable. I had sent him photo's of my current stock of IR asking how his compares, he replied say he could not match it as it was "exotic rosewood". I also asked about paypal and was told no go.

This whole deal took 40 emails in all.

Anyway to make a long story longer, I confirmed my original order and was told that I would have to take double that amount to make the frieght cost attractive to him. I replied that I under stood that, and cancelled the order. I told him at that time that he was an unknown supplier to me and his product was being purchased site unseen. He came back with an offer less than his ideal quantity but still more than I had requested. I again rejected this offer. He then came back and agreed to my initial order. I sent the money he despatched the goods. From his first contact to recieving the goods took 4 weeks of emails and 10 days or so in transit.

But wait theres more......I kept getting emails every couple of days asking if the timber had arrived, after it had arrived I got a number of emails asking me to post my findings on the forum, even got a call to my mobile phone.

The package arrived as described by others but I did notice it was described on the postal declaration as guitar parts. It got through with out being opened. There was no documentation as to the origin, species ect, that I might need to satisfy import and export regulations on any of my future instruments. I have not processed the timber so can not give an evaluationat this time.

The exersize was far easier and less stressful when I purchased from forum recomended suppliers.

This is just my experience, I'm not making any suggstions or recommendations.

[Allen]

Thanks for posting your account Taffy. You've been at this far longer than most anyone here and that's a valuable insight for all of us.