Strings - Installing

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Hesh1956
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Strings - Installing

Post by Hesh1956 » Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:08 am

One of the many things that I learned from David Collins as embarrassed as I am to admit it was how to properly install strings on a guitar...

For four decades I have been installing strings in a manner that worked fine but was less than ideal AND did not take advantage of the design of the tuners.

Yesterday I had several guitar players over and upon looking at their guitars all three of them were strung differently from each other and my guitar. :roll: :shock: :)

So I thought that this might be worth a thread and I am also very interested in hearing what others do too.

Looking at the diagram below of a tuner (compliments of Stew-Mac) do you see the taper on the tuner post tapering toward the hole?

Image

What I learned was that the purpose of this taper is to direct the string winds when the tension increases to the narrowest part of the tuner post effectively cinching the string winds against the end of the string that is passing through the hole.

In short - self cinching/snugging/locking. Go figure - this is what I did not know until David asked me what the hell I was doing when he saw me installing strings. And yes - he made me do it all over again too... :lol:

So after learning this and in combination with a suitable cordless drill with a Dunlap string winder attachment and the proper methodology/technique one can wind strings onto a guitar very quickly and precisely once you get used to how much slack you start off with for each string.

Here's how it looks on the guitar that I am playing these days:

Image

Here is the other side showing the end of the string cut off pretty close to the post. It's cut off as close to the post as it is because it is already locked in place by string tension and this greatly reduces or eliminates the possibility of the next person who strings the guitar poking a hole in their hand/finger on a string end.....

Image

So this is pretty basic stuff but again I didn't know any of this and my prior technique left a lot to be desired over this one.

I would be interested to hear if this is helpful to anyone or if I am the only clueless one here? :D

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Lillian
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Post by Lillian » Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:57 am

I, for one, will admit to being clueless. Thanks Hesh.

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Nick
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Post by Nick » Wed Oct 07, 2009 5:47 am

Ummm, I've always done it that way Hesh and work on the principle of getting three wraps on the post right through to the G string (I like to use wound thirds on acoustics but a plain on electric) & 5 or 6 wraps on the plain strings. With the last wrap coming off the lower part of the post just gives that little extra "down angle", keeps the string snugged down in the nut slot. The anal part of my psyche likes to trim close to the post as well, not only to stop the "Nickel injections" but also to keep it looking tidy. I can't bear to look at a headstock with six untrimmed string ends flapping around :roll: (Yes I'll even straighten 'off square' paintings on a strangers wall :oops: )
I used to play regularly a few years ago & even though I'd put new strings on every second gig I have really 'sweaty' hands so it wasn't uncommon to be halfway through a song and I'd lose one of the plain strings. It was alot quicker to replace the string using the minimum number of wraps and I found 5-6 to be just about right. I did it that regularly that part of my setup routine was to lay out 2 sets of plain strings on top of my amp so I could just reach behind me for a replacement :oops:

But thanks for posting anyway, putting strings on is just one of those things that I think alot of us "just do" and don't really give alot of thought to or thought to posting a "how to", and I expect there's quite a few 'different' ways that people employ.
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Kim
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Post by Kim » Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:31 am

If the guitar is set up well and it's just a re-string, mine will look much the same as Hesh shows in the image for the very same reasons, its why the tuner is designed the way it is. If i have been working on the set up of the guitar, they usually won't look that neat and uniform as they would have been loosened off and re-tightened a few times meaning they won't sit so neat on the post as the tend to ride up with memory. I am too frugal not to use them so i will leave them on the guitar for play-in and any final fettle and go for show next time. 8)

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Post by Allen » Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:36 am

I've always done it that way because it seemed the logical way, but like you I've seen heaps of different ways. Even some that like to wind them on backwards. And worst of all, winding some on each way. :shock:

One think I'd like to see added to this thread is the different ways to tie nylon strings off on the bridge. Seems there are at least a couple of methods of doing that, and I'm clueless about the procedure and benefits of the various styles.
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Rod True
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Post by Rod True » Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:36 am

Can't remember where I got my method of stringing but I do it a little bit different.

First, I set the hole inline with the run of the string in which it accomodates. Then I put the string through the hole, pulling it snug. I than grab the string at the nut and pull it to the first fret. This gives me a good length for the windings.

Holding the string at the nut now, I start to wind the string with a winder (fingers work good too :) ). Now here's what I do different, I allow the free end of the string to pass UNDER the held end, just for one wrap though, and then the remaining wraps all go down to the bottom of the post. To me you get the through string (through the hole) locked in place by both an upper and lower winding.

I also then cut the string close to the winding, maybe 1/4" off.
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Dave White
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Post by Dave White » Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:43 am

That's the way to do it (copyright Mr Punch) - it's basically a capstan. My pet hate is people who tie knots in the strings (especially the unwound strings) with a good probablity of you leaving a DNA sample (and not the pleasurable stuff) on the guitar when you try and take them off :shock:
Allen wrote: One think I'd like to see added to this thread is the different ways to tie nylon strings off on the bridge. Seems there are at least a couple of methods of doing that, and I'm clueless about the procedure and benefits of the various styles.


Allen - the best way is to get Colin to make the guitar for you :D :

Image[/img]
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Post by jeffhigh » Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:51 am

What about neatly coiling up all the extra length, rather than cutting it off, who will admit to having done it that way?

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Post by Nick » Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:58 am

jeffhigh wrote:What about neatly coiling up all the extra length, rather than cutting it off, who will admit to having done it that way?
:shock: :shock: :shock: Sorry, not me, my sphincter pukering factor would be way up on that one, Heshie's anal about a clean shop....string ends are on my list of anally retentive no no's. :lol:
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ozziebluesman
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Post by ozziebluesman » Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:00 am

I've changed strings this way for years. The link explains itself. Especially good for the electric players who bend strings a lot.

http://www.fretnotguitarrepair.com/stringing.htm

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Post by Hesh1956 » Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:37 am

Alan I like step one in the link:

"Step 1: After attaching the string to the bridge, bring it down the center of the peghead and thread it thru the tuning shafts hole."

Yep - attaching the string to the bridge is important! :D

That's the thing just like many things in guitar building there are lots of ways to do things.

Nickie :D - I'll have you know that when I was playing out (and a LOT younger...) my B and high E were usually coiled because these were the two that I tended to break. I used to have a strat that ate strings and it wasn't until a Luthier back then told me that the edge of the holes on the posts of the tuners on this strat were sharp. He used a little file to round the hole edges off and I rarely broke a string after that. I think that this guy was the first Luthier that I had ever met and he taught me something too - go figure... :D

Dave that's David Collins pet peeve too and the language gets rather colorful with he pokes himself on a string end.... Beautiful guitar there too!!!

Rod bro your method sounds like what I was doing and it worked fine for me too. One of the advantages of using the post to snug the string against the string end that is through the hole is that with a cordless drill and some practice you can change a set of strings in only a couple of minutes. What takes the most time is taking some of them back off because I put the wrong ones in the wrong spot.... Thank goodness for color coded string ends... :D

Kim I have bad luck rewinding the same strings too and mine never look like the pictures once they have been off and back on.

Sister Lillian don't feel bad I didn't put them on with this method until last winter.

Again this is not the only way to string a guitar but with a power drill/cordless screwdriver and some practice with your thumbs guiding the string you can slap them on in no time at all. Add a built in tuner to your guitar vice and you can get them in the neighborhood pitch wise too with the drill and then fine tune and stretch appropriately, or even inappropriately :D and Uncle Bob's your uncle.

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Post by Bob Connor » Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:00 am

ozziebluesman wrote:I've changed strings this way for years. The link explains itself. Especially good for the electric players who bend strings a lot.

http://www.fretnotguitarrepair.com/stringing.htm

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Alan
This is how I do it too Alan
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Post by Joe Sustaire » Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:02 am

I believe in Dan Erlewine's repair book BB King talks about how he winds all the excess string onto his post. Something about that's the way he did it when he was young and poor and didn't want to waste any string.

And no, I've never tried it,
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Post by Kim » Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:38 pm

OK,

Check this out, i use to over lap as well thinking it would prevent a sudden de-tune, but then i noticed no new instruments hanging on the music shops walls that had come straight from the factory were done that way and wondered why. This led me to understand what Hesh mentioned, the shape of the capstan locks the string by self compression and there is no need to bother tucking under.

Check this vid out and it will show you exactly how it should be done in a pro shop, none more polished than Taylor when it comes to production line standards.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXEkDR_- ... r_embedded#[/youtube]

Yep, i time that at 2 minutes and 17 seconds from start to finish to restring a 6 string acoustic guitar. 8)

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Post by Lillian » Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:44 pm

Great video. Thanks Kim.

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Post by Dennis Leahy » Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:52 pm

Allow me to add that locking posts are the bees knees. Wrap just enough string around to allow you to drop to the lowest note you will ever use. One wrap or less for every string. Strings initially tune more quickly (less string to have to stretch) and seem to also tune more quickly when you do want to change the fundamental.

Dennis
p.s. Long, long ago, I used to wrap up the excess of each string into a nice little circle up on the headstock. Someone once told me that it would come in handy if a string broke - and I would have more string to use. Of course, I blindly went along with it, without thinking it through, and it is bullshit. I wish the finish on Planet Waves tuners was nicer, and that they were not so heavy, but the self-cutting function and locking posts work great.
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Nick
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Post by Nick » Wed Oct 07, 2009 1:09 pm

Kim wrote: i use to over lap as well thinking it would prevent a sudden de-tune, but then i noticed no new instruments hanging on the music shops walls that had come straight from the factory were done that way and wondered why. This led me to understand what Hesh mentioned, the shape of the capstan locks the string by self compression and there is no need to bother tucking under.
That's why I've never bothered (I was taught Hesh's method by my first, and only, guitar teacher from day one so fortunately never had to discover), especially with the wound strings, the string's windings creates enough friction (=force) between each wrap that when the tension's on and the wraps are all trying to occupy that central spot on the post, they aint going nowhere! 8)

And Dennis, I have a set of the Planet Waves string lockers waiting to go on an electric when I get back to finishing it! (I started it then got carried away with acoustics :lol: ) Do you find them to be 'adequate' (i.e smooth winding action)? apart from your two mentioned reservations.
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Post by Dennis Leahy » Wed Oct 07, 2009 1:49 pm

Nick O wrote:
And Dennis, I have a set of the Planet Waves string lockers waiting to go on an electric when I get back to finishing it! (I started it then got carried away with acoustics :lol: ) Do you find them to be 'adequate' (i.e smooth winding action)? apart from your two mentioned reservations.
Yeah, Nick, I think they are smooth operating machines and hold well. You'll like 'em!

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Kim
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Post by Kim » Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:31 pm

Here's another tip for those unaware. Use a teaspoon as a pry bar to lift bridge pins. Simply slip the tip of the teaspoon in under the head of the pin and as you apply downward pressure, leverage lifts the pin clear as the back of the spoon rolls across the surface of the bridge spreading the load.

You can put something on the bridge to protect it i suppose but i don't bother as i have not noticed any marks or bruising of the bridge after using this technique.

Cheers

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Post by liam_fnq » Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:12 pm

i do it the same way as alan.

dont know why, it could be that my first guitar was a nylon string.

i have been told by a repairer that one wrap over the top and the rest underneath was the best way but i just kept doing it the same way. i didn't know what the taper on the string post was for but once hesh pointed it out it seems quite obvious.

a string winder is a great tool. i dont have it mounted in battery drill though.
dont need to set any land speed records :lol:

as for the bridge pins, i remove all strings from the peg head then reach into the sound hole and poke the pins out from the in side. i then install all new strings into the brdge. then i reach into the sound hole to confirm all ball ends are seated well on the bridge plate. then attach strings to tuners and tune up.

it sounds long winded but is actually quicker than doing one string at a time. also no hard tools in contact with bridge or pins or top = no chance of dents 8)

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Kim
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Post by Kim » Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:20 pm

If you don't tuck the strings and simply wind them on as shown in the Taylor vid then they will come off very easy when its time to change them. Just loosen the tuners a little, grab your side cutters and cut the old strings to remove them. I have been using a teaspoon for more than 20 years and am yet to dent or otherwise damage a bridge. If you think the bridge material looks susceptible, slip a thin protective shim between the bottom of the teaspoon and the bridge. At the end of the day it's what ever works for you, my forearm quickly fills a 4" soundhole so pushing the pins up from the inside would be a PIA.

Cheers

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Post by joel » Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:50 pm

<Gasp> There's loose threads on Hesh's guitar!!! Quick! Get out the tack cloth!

Thanks Hesh For the quick tute. And Kim for the awesome video.

I must admit to having to get my guitar out and check how it was strung. It was pretty close to your pics Hesh, but not quite as pretty. Yes, it's been that long since I restrung (or even played) :oops: .

On a related topic, I seriously love Dr. Kyser's Lemon oil (I think that's the name. The label fell off years ago). I give my strings a wipe down after every use. Boy, does it increase string life. Keeps them clean and rust free.
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Post by Hesh1956 » Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:59 pm

Great video Kim.

I learned a bit different method but the idea is the same.

Instead of using the next tuner down stream to measure the proper length of excess string one uses their fingers in combination combined with the experience to know how the thicker strings will wrap and how many winds you need.

So the left hand uses the thumb to press the string down (if you are right handed) in the nut area so that the string winds on the capstan from the bottom up. The right hand is working the drill/power screw driver. Excess string is still attached when the string is wound and only after it's wound do you cut off the excess close to the capstan.

Since Taylor's head stocks are all the same, basically, they can get away with using the next tuner to measure excess string. If we are working on a variety of guitars Taylor's method is not ideal. Think of restringing a strat for example, using the next tuner to measure excess will leave you with a string that has been cut too short.

Also I bought several of the yellow string winders shown in the Taylor video and they work fine for the tuners that Taylor uses but are not ideal for having to tune what ever the dog drags in.

I like these better, chucked in a light weight cordless drill with a good variable speed capability. A cordless screw driver would be better IMHO because it's lighter and the axis of the tool matches the angle that you want to approach the tuners at - a straight line. Notice that Taylor had to regear their cordless screw drivers for this application. I suspect that they geared them down so that full bore is not excessively fast.

Here's what I use and it has cut out for many sizes of tuners:

Image

I don't use the included winder but one could but not with the method that I learned in as much as one hand is required to feed the string.

Also, I made card board pieces the fit under the string and over the head stock face to protect the head stock face during string changes. Initially when winding the string one presses it down behind the nut to get it rolling onto the capstan beneath the hole. The card board protects the finish on the head stock from an overly aggressive push.

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Post by Nick » Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:38 am

Can't even remember what it was called now (the snail? or something) but there's a stringwinder out there that fits in your palm and has a motor built in, it also has inserts to cope with the different tuner button styles. Saw it on youtube after getting an email about it.
Personally I only wind a max of 6 wraps (on the plains) so the time saved using a motorised winder is but a pimple on a knats arse in comparison to build time so I use the hand crank style plus it's what I'm used to & us humans sure are creatures of habit (Well I am anyway :oops: ). :)

Nice little tip about the cardboard too Hesh, never thought of a solution as simple that Image
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Post by Mark McLean » Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:46 am

Here is my teaspoon for bridge pin removal. A quick nick on the bench grinder gives you an end that gets better contact with the round pin. If you pinch an old one out of the kitchen she will probably never notice.
Image

The technique on the Taylor video is cool. But Hesh is right that it can still be hard to estimate the right string length. Here is a great tip from Frank Ford:
Attach the string at the bridge, run it through the nut and up to the winding post, and pull it as tight as you can with your bare hands. DON'T PUT IT THROUGH THE HOLE YET. Keep it as tight as you can and take 2 winds around the post, starting from bottom and winding towards the top, AND THEN PASS IT THROUGH THE HOLE. For the unwound strings take 3-4 winds before going through the hole. Kink it at 90 degrees where it exits the hole, and then you can let go of it. Now bring the string up to correct tension and you will find that the bass strings take about one extra turn to get to pitch, and the treble ones a couple of turns - so you end up with the correct number of turns every time for a neat result and good grip on the post. Then snip it off. No more guessing the string length.

Now, can someone tell me how to do a slick string change on a slotted headstock? Those are the ones that are a pain.
cheers
Mark

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