Paul Builds a Segmented Rosette...

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Paul B

Paul Builds a Segmented Rosette...

Post by Paul B » Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:58 am

Took these pics for a mate who I'm building an SJ for. Figured I could make a little tute out of it here too.

I didn't have a big enough single piece of wood to make a rosette that matched the back and sides of the guitar, so I used the offcuts from the back.

First pic; I've made a workboard with the rosette laid out. I've cut 16 wedges making sure the grain on all of them points towards the center - this will help hide all the joints. The wedges don't have to all be exactly the same, I wasn't too concerned with length for example, just that the sides to be joined were all at a similar angle. The longer they are the more support you'll get for your router base.

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Then I sanded them, trying to maintain the angle, but the most important part was matching them to each other without any gaps.
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I used titebond and rubbed the joint trying to minimise any gaps, it worked quite well and I only needed a small piece of tape to hold each wedge down. Note that I've used some anti-stick baking paper stuff underneath to stop it sticking to the work board. As the wedges aren't all exactly the same I simply tried to make the edges match up roughly with the layout lines on the workboard. The last wedge obviously wasn't going to fit perfectly without an adjustment, but nobody will ever know that I cheated.

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Once the glue dried I removed the tape and stuck it back on the workboard with double sided carpet tape and ran the whole thing through the thickness sander. I'm not going to go into routing channels 'cause I expect you all know how to do that.

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Sanded flush, and then reset the router depth to cut right down to the workboard.

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Splash on some Shellite (naptha) to release the double sided tape, break off the waste and try to peel off the ring without breaking it. The joins pretty much disappear at this point.

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Done.

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Last edited by Paul B on Sun Sep 13, 2009 1:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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John Steele
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Post by John Steele » Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:15 am

Thx Paul, very nice tutorial. I was never happy with my attempts at this type of rosette. This will be a great help to me.
J
"People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it"
George Bernard Shaw

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Allen
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Post by Allen » Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:03 am

How nice is that. :D

Brilliant work Paul. You might want to put this in the Tutorial section so it doesn't get lost. I'm betting a lot of folks will be looking at it for a reference.
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Paul B

Post by Paul B » Sun Sep 13, 2009 12:40 pm

Thanks guys, I think I'll leave it here for a bit and edit as I realise where I've left info out - first tute, and I ain't that quick a thinker. Then I'll bounce it over to the tutorial section when I'm happy with it.

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Mark McLean
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Post by Mark McLean » Sun Sep 13, 2009 12:50 pm

Paul, That is really cool. The end result looks great.
You glue it up with the inner and outer BWB rings, and then you need to cut it full thickness exactly at the outer/inner limit of those rings. Is that hard to achieve? Did it need any cleanup of the surfaces before you glued it into the top?
Mark

Paul B

Post by Paul B » Sun Sep 13, 2009 1:30 pm

No, those inner and outer bwb purfs are just sitting there held in place by the remaining waste that I hadn't taken out at that point. The purfs were there so that I could measure it up before I routed the top to suit. I routed a suitable channel into a scrap bit of mdf while I was setting the router depth and radius for inlaying the ring into the top - better to get it right while having a dummy run with mdf than to screw up a nice lutz top (don't ask...). I wanted the ring to be very close to flush with the surface of the top, but just a tiny bit proud. I've found in the past that if the abalone is too proud then you run the risk of sanding through the colour of the abalone when you level it. You end up with a perfect job but the abalone has no colour left if you have to sand too far.

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Mark McLean
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Post by Mark McLean » Sun Sep 13, 2009 1:53 pm

OK, I think I get it. So when you cut it out you remove those BWB rings - since they are not glued in - and you end up with a donut which is the segmented timber ring and the abalone in the middle of it - but no BWB rings. You check it in the MDF for depth. And then when you inlay it in the guitar soundboard you put new BWB purflings around the inner and outer edges. Is that right??

Paul B

Post by Paul B » Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:18 pm

You got it.

One thing I found (it took me two goes to get this rosette right) is than you always try to make your channels a little bit narrow, and then adjust the router to widen the slot so that you creep up on where you need the channel to be - you can't put wood back in there. Don't be afraid to pull the damned thing apart and start again if you aren't happy. If you're careful you can reuse the abalone.

When inlaying into the top get a nice fit, not too tight, but firm when you assemble the thing on the dry run fit. Rip it out, wash the channels with some shellac (to prevent the CA staining the top). Reassemble, then flood the whole thing with CA (super glue), sand flush, and that's pretty much it.

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Mark McLean
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Post by Mark McLean » Sun Sep 13, 2009 4:29 pm

Thanks Paul
I am going to give this a go for my next top.
cheers
Mark

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Dave Anderson
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Post by Dave Anderson » Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:34 am

Beautiful job Paul !
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Post by Hesh1956 » Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:58 am

Great toot and a superb looking rosette Paul!!!!

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Kim
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Post by Kim » Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:31 pm

Beautiful rose Paul and an easy to follow tute as well.

Thanks for making the effort to demonstrate.

Cheers

Kim

Paul B

Post by Paul B » Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:06 pm

Thanks fellas.

My mate, who I'm building it for, rang last night to say he can't wait to play it, and says I absolutely must put my name on it this time. He's played a few of my early efforts and liked them a lot, though he plays with a heavier hand than I've built for before. This one will be built for someone who wants to wail away on the thing, but also respond to a light touch (lucky I've got John Mayes' advanced voicing dvds).

After playing my first couple he went home back to Brissy and compared it to his Maton. He now wants to get rid of the Maton. Doesn't like it at all anymore. But from what I can hear out of the thing it was built for a lighter touch than any I've built, but that's just via putting the phone on speaker and playing it to me, does seem overdriven and kinda rumbly, perhaps that's just the phone line, and what can you tell over the phone? Still, I'll take my complements where I can get them.

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Kim
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Post by Kim » Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:42 pm

Gee, my little Maton sound great Paul :lol:

The phone is a little audio challenged but then your mate has played both your guitar and his curly M so his comparison is valid. So wear the compliment with pride I say, you've earned it.

Cheers

Kim

Paul B

Post by Paul B » Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:40 pm

Kim wrote:Gee, my little Maton sound great Paul :lol:
Yeah, after you tore it a new arsehole :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Arnt
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Post by Arnt » Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:19 pm

It is a beautiful rosette!

When I make this type of rosette , I join the pieces (with CA), rout the outside and inside circumferences and glue everything into a matching rabbet on the guitar. It doesn't matter if it fits perfectly at this point, because I will rout for the purfling lines which separate the top wood from the inlaid wood afterwards, and then I only have worry about fitting those.
Arnt Rian,
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Craig
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Post by Craig » Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:38 am

A great tute Paul and nice work too ! . Good to see you back in the workshop again mate .
Craig Lawrence

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