Plane for Jointing?

Clancy · Post by **Clancy** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:33 pm

G'day gang.
In future I would like to learn to joint my archtop guitar tops & backs by bench plane.
I have found a good deal (I think) on a new #7 Clifton, but am wondering if this is oversize for the job.
As added info, I may be aussie by birth, but I'm along way from being tall & muscular. More like short & skinny. Very skinny. Would I be trying to throw too much weight around with a #7?

kiwigeo · Post by **kiwigeo** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:48 pm

I bought a humungous Veritas jointer with plans to use it for dressing my top joints but found myself reaching for the good old No 4 Veritas benchie. The jointer does come in handy though if youre making a lute....the long sole is good for shaping lute ribs.

PHANTOM · Post by **PHANTOM** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:23 pm

I did the same thing bought a huge jointing plane and hardley ever use it. I use the number four aswell. It is still nice to have one as you cant have to many tools.

J.F. Custom · Post by **J.F. Custom** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:15 pm

Generally speaking, the longer the sole of the plane, the easier it is to get a straight edge.

I agree with the others though - a #7 at roughly 550mm is overkill for the job. They are big, considerably heavy (especially the Clifton) and cumbersome. Certainly capable of giving you a straight edge - but usually on larger stock such as... a dining table for example! A smaller plane will do the job nicely with less expense. Would be nice to have one though...

My suggestion would be whatever plane you buy for the job, use a shooting board. Either make one, or buy a great one from Micheal (Localele). They make seriously light work of the job.

Cheers.

Jeremy.

Kim · Post by **Kim** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:18 pm

Larger planes takes more skill, strength and balance to control especially during the introduction of a pass. Their greater weight makes it a challenge to maintain accuracy as the toe of the sole is fed into the cut. If you were jointing a 3 or 4 metre board, you would certainly benefit from the longer sole offered by a No6 or No7. The longer sole and mass allows the cut of a jointing plane to remain true and not follow the dips and hollows in an unjointed edge as a plane with a shorter sole would do. However, in our circumstance, the trade-offs in using a true jointing plane out weigh any benefits.

Having said that, I use a Stanley No6 myself. It's old school plane with BRW tote and knob and I spent a good deal of time setting it up so it takes the finest of shavings and, for the way I use it, I find the No6 just perfect for jointing backs and tops. To over come the weight and balance issue, my method is to clamp the plane on it's side and then pass the edge of the plate over the plane. I find, as long as I make a carrier board to rest the plates on so good even hand pressure can be maintained throughout each pass, that I get very good results using this method. Another advantage is that you can easily watch the wood onto the cutting edge.

If I were to be shooting by hand, and by this I mean using the plane traditionally by feeding the sole across the edge to be jointed, my preference would be to use a well tuned No5 jackplane. The length of a No 5's sole would seem perfect for jointing the relatively short lengths that we deal with in this craft yet the weight, whilst still easy enough to control, provides enough mass to maintain an even cut throughout the pass.

Cheers

Kim

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:10 pm

Well the archtop plates I've done in the past I've gotten them close with the old buzzer (joiner) then gotten that last little bit with my trusty Stanley #5, the buzzer gets them close but not perrrfect. I suppose it's just what I have gotten used to over time as I have acess to a #6, tried it once but returned to the 5. I've found that if I make slow, careful strokes that allow me to watch the sole of the plane & how it's travelling down the face (making full contact or only one end) gives me an invisible joint everytime. Just make sure it's sharp though otherwise that curly maple will kick the planes sole in sorts of directions!
Over the lengths we're working over, a 6 or 7 are probably going to be "a nice to have" but not essential in my opinion. I even use the 5 to plain my sides so that they are a perfectly parallel 3 inches & haven't been let down yet.

graham mcdonald · Post by **graham mcdonald** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:15 pm

I have been using a Rapier 700 since the early 80s. The sole is 550mm long, so I suppose it is the equivalent of a Stanley no 7. The really important thing about using one of these for joining backs and soundboards is to have the cutting edge of the blade absolutely straight and fettle it so you can take off a transparent shaving. I have a shooting board about 600mm long made from two layers of melamine covered MDF with a couple of hold down toggles clamps to lock the pieces being jointed. The plane just slides along on its side and can be controlled with one hand. I have tried with a smoothing plane, but the longer Rapier is my preference by a long way.

cheers

graham

sebastiaan56 · Post by **sebastiaan56** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:14 pm

Ii bought a second hand veteran wooden plane with a longer bed length, takes a bit of tuning but works well and is much lighter than a steel one.

Tom West · Post by **Tom West** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:14 pm

Think any plane of reasonable length will do the trick as long as set up right. Shaving sharp (arm hair), very light cut, accurate flat sole. Given that the most important thing is pressure on the toe with the infeed,a smooth glide along the length of the board,and then pressure on the heel on the outfeed. Seems to work for me.

Localele · Post by **Localele** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 5:22 am

A shooting board will take all the stress out of it.Shoot both halves together .All the comments about being sharp and set for a fine cut can't be repeated enough.

Clancy · Post by **Clancy** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:37 pm

Well it looks like all those who are going to give an opinion have spoken, and thanks to everyone for their wisdom & experience.

After collating all the opinions I'd decided that I'd get a 12-14" plane. (although I also really like the HNT Gordon Trying Plane)

But I couldn't shake the feeling of loss whenever I rejected getting the Clifton #7.
There's something solid & old school about the look, feel & heft of it.
I'd reasoned and concluded that it wasn't really appropriate but I still wanted it.
But I didn't need it dammit!
Then I realised!
Wanting is 9 10ths of needing!

So I got it
And I feel good about getting it.
And now I have an excuse to get a smaller plane when I decide the #7 is too big for a particular job.
It's win/win!
Isn't it?

sebastiaan56 · Post by **sebastiaan56** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:02 pm

Good man!

I just got some plane blades as I want to make a scraping plane. Not sure if I wanted 50 or 60 mm so I get both. My dealer has some 30 and 40mm blades for sale as well....

Taffy Evans · Post by **Taffy Evans** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:53 am

Hi,
I've always used a Bailey # 6, cos' thats what I've always had since year dot and I find it works fine. Weight is not a problem as it lays on a very firm shooting board nearly as old as the plane, [as Grahams above]. What I also do though is to raise the plane off the shooting boards base with shims of Masonite at times, so that the blade is not cutting in the same place every time, I get more mileage before sharpening.

Clancy · Post by **Clancy** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:39 am

Thanks Taff, that's a good idea.

Hey mate, everytime I see a post by you I wonder if you know some relos of mine from Charters.
They're Owen & Sandra, owners of the Gas Shop (sandra is my mum's little sis & the last time I was in Charters they owned the big second hand shop).
Apparantly Owen's known as reasonable strum & croon guy, which is why I thought you might know them.

J.F. Custom · Post by **J.F. Custom** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:09 pm

Taffy Evans wrote:... it lays on a very firm shooting board nearly as old as the plane, [as Grahams above]. What I also do though is to raise the plane off the shooting boards base with shims of Masonite at times, so that the blade is not cutting in the same place every time, I get more mileage before sharpening.

Hey Taffy,

Another option here is to ramp your shooting board. Pitch it at an angle from one end to the other, to equal just less than the width of your #6 laid on its side. This way you get the benefits of a very smooth slicing shear cut rather than a more aggressive chisel action. You also use the full face of your blade negating the need to 'shim' to use different parts of the blade. It works really well.

Cheers,

Jeremy.

Taffy Evans · Post by **Taffy Evans** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:16 am

Good idea Jeremy, When this shooting board wears out, I'll do that.

Craig, yes I know Owen and his wife well, done quite a few repairs for him and his son over the years.

Clancy · Post by **Clancy** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:08 pm

Craig, yes I know Owen and his wife well, done quite a few repairs for him and his son over the years.

and the world get's smaller again.......
I still can't work out whether this internet thing is awesome or just plain scary.

Taffy Evans · Post by **Taffy Evans** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:19 pm

I just cant work it out....

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