something i've been working on

rocket · Post by **rocket** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:02 pm

just assembled this sound box

rocket · Post by **rocket** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:14 pm

a bit of blackwood and a bit of sitka spruce there. first time i've bound the F holes, that was an interesting proceedure!!!!! I think the white binding will go well with the blackwood. No figure in the acacia bu it has an interesing grain. First symetrical i've done, usually do cutaways, I'M EXCITED!!!!

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:33 pm

Those f holes look fantastic. Like really outstanding handwriting. Just something about the flow, and proportions that are so pleasing and look right. I'd be very please to get one to look that good as well. Keep us up to date please.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:16 pm

Nice job Rocket, I'm with Allen, good & well proportioned f holes! that back plate should really pop with some finish on it!

vandenboom · Post by **vandenboom** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:24 pm

Rod
I need to buy some tools to carve my first archtop in the next couple of months. Apart from scrapers and small Stanley block plane, I don't have anything at this stage.
I can see a small finger plane there on the bench. What else did you use to remove the bulk of the wood and tidy up?
I've seen Bob's arbortech grinder fitting (pretty scary actually), but I think I would need to do a couple slowly by hand first to have a sense of how much to remove.
I had a look on the Carbatec site today at their gouges.They have a couple of different sized "violin gouges" that I figure will do the job. Around the $90 mark. The thing concerns me about them is that it becomes another thing to learn to sharpen, and not being a straight edge, I figure it will be more difficult.
Frank

vandenboom · Post by **vandenboom** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:35 pm

Rod, are you still pretty much following the Benedetto book, or do you have other plans? The f-holes seem bigger to me in relation to the top size, than what I see in the book.
Frank

PHANTOM · Post by **PHANTOM** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:38 pm

That looks great mate very neat. Icant wait for more pics keep them coming.

Mike Thomas · Post by **Mike Thomas** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:00 pm

Vandenboom, I would steer clear of the Pfeil "violin maker's gouges". I don't know of any violin makers who use them for carving the tops and backs of violin family instruments. If you look at the picture in the Carbatec catalogue, you can see that the bevel is on the inside of the gouge, and it needs to be on the outside for the kind of work you intend. I would suggest looking at the Japan Woodworker site (japanwoodworker.com) for the 1 1/4 inch violin maker's gouge. They are highly regarded.

vandenboom · Post by **vandenboom** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:14 pm

Thanks Mike - found it. Do you need anything special to sharpen it with or is it all in the technique using standard flat stones?
Frank

Mike Thomas · Post by **Mike Thomas** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:24 pm

No, you don't need anything extra special in the way of equipment. The major requirement is the ability to sharpen. If you can get a chisel and plane iron sharp, you will be able to sharpen a gouge, with practice.

rocket · Post by **rocket** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:37 pm

Thanks for the positive feedback people. Frank,, i am using Benedetto's book for a basis, but trying some different things i've seen in other books by other luthiers and some ideas of my own, although i'm new to lutherie, i think that building guitars is more exciting than some other traditional instruments because there is always room for trhe builders own artistic design and input. with the "F" holes i thought that seeing as this archtop is a symetrical, it might look nice with "F" holes fashioned along the lines of a cello or bass, as it turns out, judging by a few comments made here, i may have made a good choice.
The fist instrument i ever made was a 4/4 violin, and to carve the inside of the top and back plates on that i used 10mm curved Fiel gouge a couple of finger planes "home made", i've since bought some really nice ones, and a couple of home made scrapers. With the guitars i use the grinder attatchment to bulk it out, then finger planes, and scrapers, hope that gives you some idea Frank. Rod.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:55 pm

Frank you may not wish to spend the money or may find a suitable equivalent/ alternative but I've carved two archtops (both with curly maple backs) with a sharp one of these babies and it's done the job admirably (apart from the bronze staining my sweaty hands green

), I also got a finger plane but is useless for carving plates but can come in handy for brace carving and shaping. Once the outside's been carved I use Bob B's drilling method to remove most of the inside. With the curved bottom (

) it leaves a pretty smooth and shaped surface, a quick rub with a sureform, 80 grit & scrapers and it doesn't take long to make your plates. My first back took about 20 hours but the second I had it down to about 12-15 hours.

Oh by the way Rod, how did you brace the top, 'X' or parallel ?

vandenboom · Post by **vandenboom** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:41 pm

Mmmm...gouge or palm plane - can't justify both (to someone else who lives in my house!!) - have to think about it.
There's something about this photo that makes me think that a sharp gouge will do it quicker and easier.
http://www.gussetviolins.com/bwwork2.jpg

Frank

Mike Thomas · Post by **Mike Thomas** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:04 pm

Ultimately.you probably need both. The gouge for getting close to dimension quickly, and then a plane for smoothing. Finish using a scraper. If you can only afford one, get the palm plane.

Clancy · Post by **Clancy** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:25 pm

Frank, personally I'd go the palm plane.
I did the first archtop with the larger of the Ibex finger planes - including the blackwood back ala rocket's here, & without using anything else to remove the bulk. Took forever but worked.

Have since done a carved mandolin and (current project) new archtop guitar with the same plane but with a toothed blade - what a difference!
And have only just this week ordered the Palm Plane with toothed Blade from LMI.

Next step is graduating to Graham's "taming the doberman" method using an arbortech to remove the bulk material.

Rocketman, I know all about binding those f-holes. Now I know what the "f" stands for! Be good to get the 2 blackwood archtops together for a sound comparison (mine has a king billy top).

rocket · Post by **rocket** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:51 am

Craig,, A king billy top hey! hard to get ahold of that stuff, how'd you manage that? Got someone on the inside maybe?

rocket · Post by **rocket** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:00 pm

different "F" holes

rocket · Post by **rocket** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:08 pm

Some cherry sides and Some kerfings just fitted

And a back in U.S. cherry sealed and ready to assemble

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rocket · Post by **rocket** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:16 pm

my fist go at lutherie

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:20 pm

How thick are your linings there Rocket? it's either how the scale of the pictures came out or looks like you got enough thickness to glue several tops to

Forgive me if it came across as criticism, it's not intended

Nice job with the f holes again I quite like the squared off ends of the end holes. Is that based on a Stromberg or Framus design? I seem to remember seeing something like them on an old archtop somewhere.

rocket · Post by **rocket** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:19 pm

Hey Nicko,,,, The linings ;ook fat in the pic don't they! they actually measure 15mm x 5.5 do you think that's big? They're a bullnosed reversed kerfing, i think they look much neater than conventional kerfings.
The "F"" holes are a Epiphone deluxe, copy, cool aren't they!
I have to admit i stuffed up the varnish on the violin, i rried using a traditional oil varnish but it failed to harden properly.
I have to strip it back and start again.

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:49 pm

Can I please make a request that anyone that is taking the time to make these fabulous instruments, also give the rest of us a build progress on them. I know it's a lot of work, but you wouldn't believe how many of us will be riveted to the screen waiting to see what transpires in your progress.

Carry on.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:53 pm

rocket wrote:Hey Nicko,,,, The linings ;ook fat in the pic don't they! they actually measure 15mm x 5.5 do you think that's big? They're a bullnosed reversed kerfing, i think they look much neater than conventional kerfings.
The "F"" holes are a Epiphone deluxe, copy, cool aren't they!
I have to admit i stuffed up the varnish on the violin, i rried using a traditional oil varnish but it failed to harden properly.
I have to strip it back and start again.

Your lining dimensions aren't that bad now you say what they are, must just be the old case of the camera adding ten pounds

5.5mm into the plate area sounds like a good amount and the rims on an archtop only hold the plates apart so I guess the lining depth doesn't matter and you are right, the reversed linings do look cool, almost like solid linings but neater with the rounded top

Thought I had seen this f hole style before just couldn't think where and again they do look cool!
Now for that violin...Damn fine for your first ever go at building if you ask me! & to dive right in with a violin first up

I bet your the first guy in the water at a polar bear swim aint ya!?

You aren't the first to discover something new on a build and you won't be the last! Even now occasionally, after doing probably close to 100 resprays on various instruments, something will still bite me in the arse and it's out with the sander and start again

rocket · Post by **rocket** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:03 pm

Allen, i'll take that as a compliment coming from an experienced luthier such as yourself. I'm off work at the moment due to medical reasons, and have the time to get on here and post a few pics of my current projects, i'll try to keep the forum updated in future. Rod.

rocket · Post by **rocket** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:10 pm

Nicko,,, There's a story behind the violin, an emotional one, and that's what got me started on this whole lutherie thing, and you know what , i love it!

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