7 course Renaissance Lute Build
7 course Renaissance Lute Build
Back to square one with the (bldi) Renaissanice Lute. I wasnt happy with the first attempt on the body mold so made version two of same this time paying more attention to dimensions. I followed Allens suggestion of sticking photocopies of the plans of each ribhb section onto the MDF and it resulted in more accurate cutting out and shaping of same. I also shaped the rib sections using a hand plane and sanding stick rather than the power sander.
Ive got a stack of Opp grade Allied IRW back and side sets and most of them arent matched so theyre going to make up the bowl of the lute. Some of this stuff is really quite pretty.
Working side blanks down to circa 1.4mm (0.065") using the trusty old Miller Falls scraper plane. This bodgey looking old handtool is great for working on rosewood and other woods with rogue grain.
Ive got a stack of Opp grade Allied IRW back and side sets and most of them arent matched so theyre going to make up the bowl of the lute. Some of this stuff is really quite pretty.
Working side blanks down to circa 1.4mm (0.065") using the trusty old Miller Falls scraper plane. This bodgey looking old handtool is great for working on rosewood and other woods with rogue grain.
- Dennis Leahy
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- Nick
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Looking good Martin and good to see traditional techniques employed shaving the sides down! It's nice to know I'm not the only 'fussy' bugger & scrap things that I'm not happy with. So what are you going to do with the old mold? Will the boss get a new planter or Martin get a new see through cycle helmet? or following on in Dennis's theme, you could do half a Hindenberg recreation
"Jesus Loves You."
Nice to hear in church but not in a Mexican prison.
Nice to hear in church but not in a Mexican prison.
Like any huge project that gets into trouble I've spent the last few days looking at what Ive done so far and how I could re-do things better. Version 2 of the body mould went ok and although its not perfect Im going to run with it.
Van Andrews supplies plans of the ribs but in his instructions he says to make up cardboard ribs and test fit them and from these make up actual rib templates. I tried this with the central rib and just about drove myself crazy trying to get the thing right. The original middle rib plan as supplied by Van Andrews fits roughly with a few adjustments needed in places. Im going to run with same and make final adjustments to the rib prior to gluing. This is the approach Dave White took with his lute and it sort of makes sense.
I've decided to go with hide glue as per the tutorial. Ive never used beast glue before so next activity will be a few days of playing around with the stuff. Ive got a baby bottle warmer which Ill use until my Hiden glue pot arrives from Germany. In the meantime there are the IRW ribstock to work down to 0.065" thickness.
Van Andrews supplies plans of the ribs but in his instructions he says to make up cardboard ribs and test fit them and from these make up actual rib templates. I tried this with the central rib and just about drove myself crazy trying to get the thing right. The original middle rib plan as supplied by Van Andrews fits roughly with a few adjustments needed in places. Im going to run with same and make final adjustments to the rib prior to gluing. This is the approach Dave White took with his lute and it sort of makes sense.
I've decided to go with hide glue as per the tutorial. Ive never used beast glue before so next activity will be a few days of playing around with the stuff. Ive got a baby bottle warmer which Ill use until my Hiden glue pot arrives from Germany. In the meantime there are the IRW ribstock to work down to 0.065" thickness.
- Dave White
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Martin,
Colin told me that on the old lutes he's examined, nearly all of them have the bottom two ribs next to the soundboard a different size to the others. I think we tend to get too anal about plans and precise measurements, the old guys used their eyes and hand skills and corrected/adapted as they went. I've seen a couple of threads on other forums where builders have been lost as how to shape sides for tops and backs without the comfort of a nice "ball shaped" sanding dish. The answer is you use your eyes, some chalk, a sharp plane and make it fit. In that way I found making the lute liberating and I hope you do too.
Mind you, get a big swear box as the last two ribs on each side took me over a week to fit correctly. It was basically make a card template that fit the gap and use that and a lot of patience - plus the old chestnut of you can take wood off but it's harder to put it back
You'll be fine with the hide glue - the ribs when you've planed (sanded ) them for fit are just rub joints, and if you aren't quite fast enough, then running a hairdryer over the joint will re-melt the glue and let it set with the ribs joined. What seems like a very fragile construction becomes surprisingly strong when all the ribs are glued and the inside joints covered with silk or paper covered in hide glue.
I know some people diss the baby bottle warmer but they work perfectly well and for £10 versus £150 to me it's a no brainer. The old lute makers didn't use thermostatically controlled glue pots forsooth.
The new mold looks great and I'm looking forward to seeing it get filled up with ribs.
Colin told me that on the old lutes he's examined, nearly all of them have the bottom two ribs next to the soundboard a different size to the others. I think we tend to get too anal about plans and precise measurements, the old guys used their eyes and hand skills and corrected/adapted as they went. I've seen a couple of threads on other forums where builders have been lost as how to shape sides for tops and backs without the comfort of a nice "ball shaped" sanding dish. The answer is you use your eyes, some chalk, a sharp plane and make it fit. In that way I found making the lute liberating and I hope you do too.
Mind you, get a big swear box as the last two ribs on each side took me over a week to fit correctly. It was basically make a card template that fit the gap and use that and a lot of patience - plus the old chestnut of you can take wood off but it's harder to put it back
You'll be fine with the hide glue - the ribs when you've planed (sanded ) them for fit are just rub joints, and if you aren't quite fast enough, then running a hairdryer over the joint will re-melt the glue and let it set with the ribs joined. What seems like a very fragile construction becomes surprisingly strong when all the ribs are glued and the inside joints covered with silk or paper covered in hide glue.
I know some people diss the baby bottle warmer but they work perfectly well and for £10 versus £150 to me it's a no brainer. The old lute makers didn't use thermostatically controlled glue pots forsooth.
The new mold looks great and I'm looking forward to seeing it get filled up with ribs.
Dave White
[url=http://www.defaoiteguitars.com]De Faoite Stringed Instruments[/url]
[url=http://www.defaoiteguitars.com]De Faoite Stringed Instruments[/url]
The Avanti baby bottle warmers are THE best glue pot on the market. I fooled around with a thermometer and the thermostat control until I got it spot on. I then marked the plastic body of the unit with a hot pin. Now if I knock the control knob I just turn it back to my pin point and it's spot on, the accuracy is brilliant but then it would need to be, after all it is made to heat baby food, imagine the law suits if they were bunky.
Cheers
Kim
Cheers
Kim
That's some great work there Martin and hats off on remaking the mold.
I've always used hot glue for my piano work . Here's a pic of what I've been using for many many years . Just an old second hand electric frypan . It allows plenty of room for a jug of hot water for clean-up and brushes etc , an old glue pot, and more recently, the newer idea of a little squirt bottle. I warm up parts to be glued on it as well. I sit it next to the job at hand and because of it's thermistat keeps a constant temperature
I've always used hot glue for my piano work . Here's a pic of what I've been using for many many years . Just an old second hand electric frypan . It allows plenty of room for a jug of hot water for clean-up and brushes etc , an old glue pot, and more recently, the newer idea of a little squirt bottle. I warm up parts to be glued on it as well. I sit it next to the job at hand and because of it's thermistat keeps a constant temperature
Craig Lawrence
Okay Ive been playing around with hide glue all afternoon and its been alot of fun. I bought myself a wax pot from Carbatec here in Adelaide a few years back and Ive never fired the thing up. After a bit of playing around I worked out temp settings on the thing to get a steady temp in the pot of around 145degF. I mixed up a batch of hide glue using Ubeauts pearl hide glue. Not sure on the strength rating on the stuff...anyone got any ideas? I imagine its around the 190gm mark.
After letting the glue absorb added water I stuck it in the pot and got it to a runny consistency. I then whacked a bit on a couple of pieces of scrap wood and clamped it with moderate pressure. Hey presto....the two bits of wood are now stuck together. The glue in the pot (its actually in a plastic pottle) has nowq cooled to a gel and Ive stored it in the fridge for use in a day or two during some more test sessions.
After letting the glue absorb added water I stuck it in the pot and got it to a runny consistency. I then whacked a bit on a couple of pieces of scrap wood and clamped it with moderate pressure. Hey presto....the two bits of wood are now stuck together. The glue in the pot (its actually in a plastic pottle) has nowq cooled to a gel and Ive stored it in the fridge for use in a day or two during some more test sessions.
- Dennis Leahy
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- Dave White
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Martin,kiwigeo wrote:All going too well for my liking. I dont like instruments that go together without any problems.
Don't worry - your wish will soon be granted, trust me I'm a luthier
Great stuff - the first rib on and the form looks in great shape. Nice to see someone doing the joins the traditional way That will keep Colin happy.
Keep the pictures coming.
Dave White
[url=http://www.defaoiteguitars.com]De Faoite Stringed Instruments[/url]
[url=http://www.defaoiteguitars.com]De Faoite Stringed Instruments[/url]
Great work and tude Martin.kiwigeo wrote:All going too well for my liking. I dont like instruments that go together without any problems.
I am enjoying this as well mate, your determination is commendable but more importantly, it's clearly paying dividends. Inspiring stuff rock doc, your doing very well
Cheers
Kim
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