Acoustic amplification questions.

[gratay]

I'll set the scene..
I have some acoustic gigs coming up in a month and have up until now only really done gigs playing electric guitar...so I'm a sort of acoustic amplification noob.
One thing I do know is I'm not particularly fond of the piezo pickup sound whenever I've had a chance to plug one in..I'm sure there is some good ones but they don't sound all that natural to me..
The other thing I don't want to do is cut any holes in my guitar other than a hole for a jack.

This leads my research down to a few options ..magnetic soundhole pickups or something like the "KKsound" or "Pickup the world" varieties.
I like the look of the KKsound gear.

Has anyone had any experience with the pure western and the trinity systems? Is there a big added bonus with the microphone on the trinity?
Also , I like the look of their preamps especially the pur XLR..I like the idea of having control over EQ and volume and gain on a belt clip or within easy reach..

And this is the thing thats confusing me most.
If I decide to buy an acoustic amp do I need the preamp at all..Can I plug straight into the amp with something like the "Pure Western".

How do you folk amplify your acoustics and what pickup and or preamps/acoustic amps do you recommend?

Cheers Grant

[Bob Connor]

I'm a K&K agent Grant.

I'm also not biased toward them as I still use a Takamine with a an under saddle pickup that I prefer using with the band to the K & K. (purely because it cuts through a lot better) and for a USL I'd also pick the EMG because they're really fat in the top end.

I've got a K & K pure Western with onboard preamp in my 12 string and couldn't be happier with it.

You can use the K&K without a pre-amp but it'll sound a lot better with it.

I think we've had quite a few discussions about them on the forum a while ago. it may pay to do a search.

[Hippety Hop]

I have a couple of undersaddle pickups in ukes. A Fishman (US) passive, and a Shadow (GER) active. They both have endpin jacks, and were easy to install.

The active needs to have it's 9v battery replaced once in a blue moon, but doesn't give you any warning when it's going flat.

The passive doesn't use a battery but it lets me down regularly. I will be playing softly, and it will just stop (dead) until I either wiggle the jack or strum hard.

I intend to replace it with the L.R.Baggs rechargeable, but have been spending all my money at Stewart - MacDonald's lately.

Cheers Hip.

[ozziebluesman]

G'day Grant,

Well like you mate it's been my strat and valve amp that have been my main stage outfit for many years. It is only the past few years that I have started to play acoustic guitar. I love the percussive tone you can achieve when playing acoustic that you can't get from an electric.

For a acoustic solo performance I like the k&k pure western mini pick-up very much. I use this model in three of my guitars including the weissenborn copy, an old regal parlor and my 000 acoustic without using an external pre-amp. I have a Yamaha PA system that has good EQ and have no problems achieving a good sound. The pick-up has plenty of output too IMO. I haven't tried a k&k XLR Pre-amp with the phase control but I reckon it would improve your tone heaps and provide much more control.

If your in a band environment say with bass and drums I would go for a good sound hole pick-up like the LR Baggs M1. In my experience you can get more stage volume before feedback using these than the under the bridge plate pick-ups. I found the k&k suffered feedback problems when working with other electric instruments on stage. Seems to me the k&k is sensitive and it amplifies the bass and drums sound on stage creating feedback problem. Especially if the stage volume is cooking!!! The M1 on the other hand handled higher stage volumes much better!

As far as tone goes the k&k systems are very natural sounding and reproduce the acoustic sound of an instrument beautifully. The M1 is more an electric sound but still capturing some of the acoustic sound.

I have some sound samples of the weiss and the guitars so if you would like a listen sing out and I will email the mp3s to you.

Hope this helps

Cheers

Alan

[kiwigeo]

While on the subject of amps and pickups...what's everyone using in the way of amps (and speakers)?

[Bob Connor]

Straight into the desk.

[kiwigeo]

What sort of desk...walnut of mahogany?

[Taffy Evans]

Hi Grant
As Alan said above, plus, I've used B Band on a few of my guitars and the reports back are good, I like them. At bandwork volume's a mic in the system could be a problem. Alans pretty fussy about his sound so when he talks acoustics I listen. Actually I've sat in his studio and listened.

[Clancy]

Morning Grant,
I cant speak for the piezo's, but the Kent Armstrong supended pickup I use not only sounds great it seems to genuinly transmit the characteristics of my guitar. No pre-amp - plug straight into the Roland (the amp, not my son of the same name).
If you try a magnetic soundhole pickup and dont like it it's easy to change and no damage done.

Taffy - talk about an early riser. No daylight savings in Qld and your hammering the keystrokes before the cane toads have called it quits for the night.

[gratay]

thanks guys...
Bob, I'll PM you soon and get some prices once I've had a listen to a few of the other magnetic type things around....and then see which way I'm leaning..
ozzie,...thanks ,.thats painted me a clear picture of the differences..
One thing I like about the Baggs system is the fact that its easy to use on other instruments...I also like the look of the Baggs Para DI..don't know how it compares to the K&K XLR Pure preamp ..
At this stage I will only be doing small rooms and duo/trio gigs with acoustic. guitar/bass/vocals , low volume and no drums.
So if the K&K is a better representation of the natural sound of the guitar it may be the way to go..In a band situation I usually always play electric.

cheers Craig,...I'll look into the kent armstrong gear..

I have read about the feedback issues with the K&K pickup which is why I'm wondering if the XLR preamp with its phase switch addresses some of these feedback problems.?

Martin,...I've tried a few amps out recently and theres 2 that I've thought are really good..
The AER compact60 sounded great. The Ultrasound AG50DS3 sounded really good as well. And theres one that I really want to try before making a decision and thats the Schertler David...which I've heard good things about..It also has spring reverb (Which I like the idea of) rather than digital effects like the others..

Cheers Grant

[Kim]

I have a Takamine Tri-axia soundhole pickup (It's actually a Baggs M1 repackaged for Takamine in black and gold rather than Baggs white) and K&K Western Mini. I blend both pickups through a K&K Dual Channel Pro Preamp. I got the K&K gear from Bob Connor and I am very happy with the combo.

I also have an AER Compact Mobile amp, exactly the same amp as the AER Compact 60 which Grant mentioned but has an aux input to run a portable CD and has an internal 12v gel cell which automatically recharges whilst your playing plugged into the mains. The battery last a couple of hours on high output so you can gig without power. When that runs out you can plug her into your car cigi lighter and go again, great for parties and buskers.

AER make the best acoustic amp in the world, the little box that will blow your mind.

Cheers

Kim

[gratay]

sounds like a very nice setup you've got there Kim.

What do you think soundwise of the K & K western mini by itself? Can it do it alone?

[Bob Connor]

Grant

I have an OM with a K & K installed in the shop at present. I also have one of the K & K pre-amps.

If you can get down to Geelong it'd be worth your while I feel.

It's too hard to try and describe acoustic properties of guitars and pickups using just the English language.

You've got to judge with your own ears whether you like the sound or not.

One man's pleasure is another man's pain.

[gratay]

Grant

I have an OM with a K & K installed in the shop at present. I also have one of the K & K pre-amps.

If you can get down to Geelong it'd be worth your while I feel.

It's too hard to try and describe acoustic properties of guitars and pickups using just the English language.

You've got to judge with your own ears whether you like the sound or not.

One man's pleasure is another man's pain.

thanks for the offer Bob...
I may have to order a pickup pretty quick smart....for these gigs and rehearsals prior are looming...I'd love to hear one beforehand but I may have to take the plunge.
I know sound is impossible to describe in words and the good thing is everything i read about K&K sounds like just what the doctor ordered..
I'm PM'ing you now for some info.
Grant

[Kim]

sounds like a very nice setup you've got there Kim.

What do you think soundwise of the K & K western mini by itself? Can it do it alone?

I 'really' like the sound of the K&K mini Grant, to my ear the tone is very natural and not near as brittle as the M1 can be. As explained I run dual source and generally blend with a bias toward the mini for richness.

The K&K rely in 3 x pezo disks glued to the bridge plate just forward of each pair of bridge pins to pickup vibrations, so it is fair to say they are naturally stronger in the bass and mids than they are in the trebles. This makes sense when you think about it because the thicker strings do create much stronger vibrations of the bridge plate.

I would say in an acoustic solo/duo gig, the K&K mini would be a perfect choice, but to get the best out of them and bring those trebles up to balance, you really should be running a pre-amp as trying to do so with your amp alone is a trade off.

Oh by the way, I love my setup but my neighbors all hate it....relations could probably improve if I could play better but that ain't gonna happen any time soon, I got fingers like breakfast sausages and sing loud to cover up the crap guitar.....but I have fun

Hope that helps

Cheers

Kim