I've never felt that there was any opposition to electrics here, it's just that most of us build acoustic guitars, or Bass Viols, mandos, lutes, cellos or whatever.
Seriously guys, it's YOUR luthiers forum, it's whatever YOU want it to be. I'd love to see as much variety as ya'll can bring, and I know the other mods and admins would too.
Nice ax Stu!
Electrics and acoustics living happily together
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Bob Connor
- Admin
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Thanks for the timely reminder everyone.
This got started a couple of years ago and I should extract a digit and do something with it. Mahogany with a maple drop top.
I want to put a set of Fralin Blues Specials in it.
Anyone got any suggestions as to what sort of bindings to throw on this.
I'm of two minds as to leave it au naturale or apply a blue tint to the top.
This got started a couple of years ago and I should extract a digit and do something with it. Mahogany with a maple drop top.
I want to put a set of Fralin Blues Specials in it.
Anyone got any suggestions as to what sort of bindings to throw on this.
I'm of two minds as to leave it au naturale or apply a blue tint to the top.
I don't know how I missed this thread, but I'll through my 2 cents in. If it can make music, either by strumming, plucking, bowing, blowing or banging it, then they all belong here.
We don't have to necessarily be in love with the style of music that is often associated with a particular instrument, but there are skills and innovations involved in making any instrument.
I wholeheartedly encourage everyone to submit their work, no matter what genre it is, to the forum. I'll be the first to admit that I know bugger all about many types of instruments or building acoustics for that matter, and seeing others work, and the discussion that ensues is what keeps me coming back.
Some examples off the top of my head are Matthew's double bass, Stewart's electrics and Sebastian's mandolin. All very inspirational work guys.
And Bob, I think white bindings of some sort and blue tint would look great on that one.
We don't have to necessarily be in love with the style of music that is often associated with a particular instrument, but there are skills and innovations involved in making any instrument.
I wholeheartedly encourage everyone to submit their work, no matter what genre it is, to the forum. I'll be the first to admit that I know bugger all about many types of instruments or building acoustics for that matter, and seeing others work, and the discussion that ensues is what keeps me coming back.
Some examples off the top of my head are Matthew's double bass, Stewart's electrics and Sebastian's mandolin. All very inspirational work guys.
And Bob, I think white bindings of some sort and blue tint would look great on that one.
That's very nice, Bob.
Can't believe you left this one hanging for so long !!!!
What's the neck/ fretboard to be ?
That's going to be a big decider on what binding treatment to tie the whole package in.
That top would look great tinted blue , with a slightly darker blue sunburst around the edges would be my pick. That'd give a little added depth.
If you're running a maple fretboard, Faux binding is a possibility, whilst I'd definitely go a double binding of flame maple outer with a .5mm black inner to add deliniation.
Rosewood fretboard would get rosewood outer binding and .5mm maple inner.
Then again it all comes back to that neck and fretboard.
Any thoughts on the f-hole ?
Bound? Faux? It needs something otherwise it'll get lost.
cheers, Stu
Can't believe you left this one hanging for so long !!!!
What's the neck/ fretboard to be ?
That's going to be a big decider on what binding treatment to tie the whole package in.
That top would look great tinted blue , with a slightly darker blue sunburst around the edges would be my pick. That'd give a little added depth.
If you're running a maple fretboard, Faux binding is a possibility, whilst I'd definitely go a double binding of flame maple outer with a .5mm black inner to add deliniation.
Rosewood fretboard would get rosewood outer binding and .5mm maple inner.
Then again it all comes back to that neck and fretboard.
Any thoughts on the f-hole ?
Bound? Faux? It needs something otherwise it'll get lost.
cheers, Stu
Bob, I like this quilty flame stuff. I just ordered a bunch of maple tops from Perry Ormsby.
As for colour, I just finished a 7 string electric with maple top. This is my new metal axe with Kalher trem bridge and SD active pickups. I'll get some pics up.
Started out blue with purple border, ended up a blood red colour as i mucked around. I ended up favouring more natural colours, the blue looked great but a little too artificial to my eye.
I also discovered its not that easy to get a good colour as you need to judge what it will look like when dry, then under your finish. (I used SM power water based colours). One good thing was that the dye does not go too deep with maple so I was able to sand most of the colour off between tries. I did try it on scrap also but how much lovely flamed maple do we have hanging around as scrap?
I can see that experience will be everything as I do more so please keep us informed of your progress Bob.
Dom
As for colour, I just finished a 7 string electric with maple top. This is my new metal axe with Kalher trem bridge and SD active pickups. I'll get some pics up.
Started out blue with purple border, ended up a blood red colour as i mucked around. I ended up favouring more natural colours, the blue looked great but a little too artificial to my eye.
I also discovered its not that easy to get a good colour as you need to judge what it will look like when dry, then under your finish. (I used SM power water based colours). One good thing was that the dye does not go too deep with maple so I was able to sand most of the colour off between tries. I did try it on scrap also but how much lovely flamed maple do we have hanging around as scrap?
I can see that experience will be everything as I do more so please keep us informed of your progress Bob.
Dom
You can bomb the world to pieces,
but you can't bomb the world to peace!
but you can't bomb the world to peace!
When I first started building steel string acoustics, I witnessed an elitist attitude from a few classic guitar builders who said that "the only proper guitar to ever build is a classic guitar built in the style of the Spanish masters." So, while I haven't purposely avoided building a classical guitar, I have put it on my priority list of something to try someday. I already have the plans and have set aside some wood for such a build.
Likewise, building electric guitars has also been on my list as well as a mandolin and who knows...I may even consider building a banjo someday. The point is...why should I limit myself due to someone's pre-conceived bias toward an instrument that has a real solid place within the music community.
I kinda shuddered when I saw the title of this thread that implied that one must commit to building EITHER acoustics OR electrics. Over the years it's been puzzling to me why a few acoustic builders look down their noses at those who are interested in expanding their knowledge of guitars and choose to also build electrics. I've built 4 electrics so far and I can tell you, there are similar as well as different challenges that require no less skill and care that we experience for steel string acoustics.
So we're now witnessing a similar elitist attitude among a small but vocal minority of builders against electrics and those who wish to expand their horizons as well as nudge the body of knowledge just a little farther down the road. My advice to these boys is that they seriously consider opening their minds and AT LEAST show a little respect and tolerance for those of us who choose a different path. And who knows, they may even develop the intellectual curiosity to give it a try themselves.
So my advice, Dominic...just do it and build whatever your preference and priority dictates. There are some great electric forums out there that cater to "The Dark Side". If anyone is interested in knowing where they are, just let me know.
Likewise, building electric guitars has also been on my list as well as a mandolin and who knows...I may even consider building a banjo someday. The point is...why should I limit myself due to someone's pre-conceived bias toward an instrument that has a real solid place within the music community.
I kinda shuddered when I saw the title of this thread that implied that one must commit to building EITHER acoustics OR electrics. Over the years it's been puzzling to me why a few acoustic builders look down their noses at those who are interested in expanding their knowledge of guitars and choose to also build electrics. I've built 4 electrics so far and I can tell you, there are similar as well as different challenges that require no less skill and care that we experience for steel string acoustics.
So we're now witnessing a similar elitist attitude among a small but vocal minority of builders against electrics and those who wish to expand their horizons as well as nudge the body of knowledge just a little farther down the road. My advice to these boys is that they seriously consider opening their minds and AT LEAST show a little respect and tolerance for those of us who choose a different path. And who knows, they may even develop the intellectual curiosity to give it a try themselves.
So my advice, Dominic...just do it and build whatever your preference and priority dictates. There are some great electric forums out there that cater to "The Dark Side". If anyone is interested in knowing where they are, just let me know.
Here are just a two of the more recent electric instruments I have made over the past few years. The attention to detail is no less demanding as is the necessity for precision in meeting a demanding customer's expectations.
Enjoy!
Finally...I hope posting such pictures of electrics as well as expounding on the virtues of pursuing such instruments has not violated any formal rules of the forum. Hopefully it has opened some minds and generated just a tiny bit of curiosity. Thanks for looking.
Enjoy!
Finally...I hope posting such pictures of electrics as well as expounding on the virtues of pursuing such instruments has not violated any formal rules of the forum. Hopefully it has opened some minds and generated just a tiny bit of curiosity. Thanks for looking.
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snidermike
- Beefwood
- Posts: 28
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- Location: Denver, CO, USA
- Contact:
Very cool guitar JJ. Is that walnut on the top of the middle pic?
There are lots of techniques you have obviously used to build this that would be great to share on the forum some time.
I am also keen to now if you think building an electric with so many bits of wood makes it sound different to one build from one solid or far few bits.
Dom
There are lots of techniques you have obviously used to build this that would be great to share on the forum some time.
I am also keen to now if you think building an electric with so many bits of wood makes it sound different to one build from one solid or far few bits.
Dom
You can bomb the world to pieces,
but you can't bomb the world to peace!
but you can't bomb the world to peace!
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Taffy Evans
- Blackwood
- Posts: 997
- Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:54 pm
- Location: Charters Towers North Queensland
Hi JJ
I wish I could put my thoughts down as well as some of the other contributors out there. But if I could, I would have written something like your post. Untill this thread was up and running, in the 45 odd years I have been working with stringed instruments of all kinds, I have never realised that there could be a divide out there. But then I've never mixed with other builders before joining the Forum. Thirty years of working in Central Australia did not put one close to the action very often.
I find I can learn from any other builder, from guitar to an Early English instrument, and I can respect their work and recognise the degree of difficulty the builder faced, and the joy they got from the challenge.
I did experience,what I thought to be a sort of dividing line [for want of a better word] being drawn up many years ago. I used to be a member and contribute to a group, I think it was called JAMMN, I enjoyed the flow of information even though it did not strictly focus on my areas of interest at that time.
However it was put forward that members/builders were going to be graded in relation to their standing in the musical instrument community. I suspect it may have been an A B C D grading type of thing, I dont know because I disgreed with an assessment process and left the group. There may be some forum contributors who experienced that strategy at work, would be interesting to hear why and how it worked.
The way I see it is if one makes a box or gets a slab of timber and puts strings on them, were are all called "Luthiers". Come to think of it doesn't Luthier come from the word "Lute Maker"?, nothing to do with acoustic or solid body guitars.
I wish I could put my thoughts down as well as some of the other contributors out there. But if I could, I would have written something like your post. Untill this thread was up and running, in the 45 odd years I have been working with stringed instruments of all kinds, I have never realised that there could be a divide out there. But then I've never mixed with other builders before joining the Forum. Thirty years of working in Central Australia did not put one close to the action very often.
I find I can learn from any other builder, from guitar to an Early English instrument, and I can respect their work and recognise the degree of difficulty the builder faced, and the joy they got from the challenge.
I did experience,what I thought to be a sort of dividing line [for want of a better word] being drawn up many years ago. I used to be a member and contribute to a group, I think it was called JAMMN, I enjoyed the flow of information even though it did not strictly focus on my areas of interest at that time.
However it was put forward that members/builders were going to be graded in relation to their standing in the musical instrument community. I suspect it may have been an A B C D grading type of thing, I dont know because I disgreed with an assessment process and left the group. There may be some forum contributors who experienced that strategy at work, would be interesting to hear why and how it worked.
The way I see it is if one makes a box or gets a slab of timber and puts strings on them, were are all called "Luthiers". Come to think of it doesn't Luthier come from the word "Lute Maker"?, nothing to do with acoustic or solid body guitars.
Taff
Dom...Walnut it is.Dominic wrote:Very cool guitar JJ. Is that walnut on the top of the middle pic?
There are lots of techniques you have obviously used to build this that would be great to share on the forum some time.
I am also keen to now if you think building an electric with so many bits of wood makes it sound different to one build from one solid or far few bits.
Dom
The laminated body is more aesthetic than anything else IMO. Strats are typically made from Alder or Ash...maple or RW fretboards. The more sensitive players will tell you that each one has its own tonal idiosyncrasies.
Of the 2 guitars shown, there is a world of tonal, sustain and playability differences between them. Then again, there's a world of difference between Frank & Joe as well...my sons for whom they were made and who play them constantly!
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sebastiaan56
- Blackwood
- Posts: 1279
- Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:23 am
- Location: Blue Mountains
Some references,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luthier
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/luthier ,and
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Luthier
The word appears to come from the French "Lut" for Lute.
There are some seriously nice axes there guys, first class aesthetics and workmanship! (I think Stu's axe has been awarded GOTM). I think the possibilities created by being freed up from acoustic restraints of "boxes' are yet to be fully realised.
I spent Sunday arvo drinking beer with a bloke I went to school with, 30 odd years professional muso. He showed me his axes and to an instrument I was disappointed with the workmanship on these instruments. All were big factory names. That seems to be what connects the members here, a love of fine workmanship of stringed instruments, of the intelligent and clever use of timbers and accoutrements.
I belonged to a medieval organisation that was into grading participation once, it died in less than 5 months as the elites disappeared up each others arses. Im glad Bob has set up a forum where we can be different and learn off each other..... even if I prefer acoustic music.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luthier
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/luthier ,and
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Luthier
The word appears to come from the French "Lut" for Lute.
There are some seriously nice axes there guys, first class aesthetics and workmanship! (I think Stu's axe has been awarded GOTM). I think the possibilities created by being freed up from acoustic restraints of "boxes' are yet to be fully realised.
I spent Sunday arvo drinking beer with a bloke I went to school with, 30 odd years professional muso. He showed me his axes and to an instrument I was disappointed with the workmanship on these instruments. All were big factory names. That seems to be what connects the members here, a love of fine workmanship of stringed instruments, of the intelligent and clever use of timbers and accoutrements.
I belonged to a medieval organisation that was into grading participation once, it died in less than 5 months as the elites disappeared up each others arses. Im glad Bob has set up a forum where we can be different and learn off each other..... even if I prefer acoustic music.
make mine fifths........
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Ethereal Guitars
- Wandoo
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- Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:44 am
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
- Contact:
Ok, I'm new to this forum and have just been scanning through various threads and these Acoustic vs Electric topics always get me in!
I agree with the general concensus achieved thus far being that BOTH styles of instrument are built by 'luthiers'. I always understood the term/occupation title to be "builder of stringed intruments"...including violins, lyres, electric guitars, acoustic guitars etc.
So if one's time is "occupied" by building "stringed instruments" then I would consider them to be a luthier. IMO all the other slants on this are in the category referred to as "tone voodoo".....perhaps "luthier voodoo".
A luthier who has built 1 instrument has still occupied their time as a luthier.......whereas a luthier that has built 100 instruments over many years would be a VERY EXPERIENCED and most would say QUALIFIED luthier......both are luthiers though. Why would luthiery be treated differently to any other vocation? I think varying levels of experience is the key.
Now, a reference was made to "Death Metal" as being a marketing ploy?? Just to clarify and inform seeing as this is one of my favourite styles of music.....Death Metal is a term coined to describe metal bands that use lyrics that are pre-occupied with Death
......it was never meant to be popular and was never meant to be marketed! The current leading band in this genre OPETH from Sweden, combine an incredible mixture of stringed intruments.....from the heaviest wall of high gain sound to the cleanest of acoustic ensembles.....from evil growl vocals to incredible clean baritones with harmonies you need to hear to understand. To me, this is the holy grail.....these guys can do it all musically and it is not done to achieve sales targets, they feed an inner passion......that's MUSIC, regardless of the style! I can't stand the 'shaky/shaky' rubbish either....that term made me laugh though 
As for electric vs acoustic. I too love and play both instruments although I have only built electric guitars. There are several reasons why. I understand humidity to be a major factor that can have disastrous effects on acoustic thin timbers and as I don't have a humidity controlled work environment and live in a high rainfall area that also gets bloody hot, I am reluctant to 'suffer the consequences' and disappointment of this wild card. Secondly, I have a nice Maton 6 string with QLD Maple back and sides, spruce top etc and I am reasonably satisfied that this covers a lot of the scope of what an acoustic can do (settle, settle!). I write all of my songs on this and then record with electrics and sometimes mic up the Maton. To me, an electric guitar offers far more scope for BODY SHAPE VARIATION & TONAL FLEXIBILITY/APPLICATION.
Acoustic guitars are THE instrument for folk music, campfires (playing around them!) and any situation where electricity is not on hand or volume is an issue. For some reason, my burning desire that we all have to build stringed instruments, is not ignited for acoustics.....but one day I would love to build one.....might get the bug then hey?
Here's one of my favourite builds I completed earlier this year. 1/4 sawn Vic Ash Body, Blackwood top, Gidgee fretboard, Blackwood 3 piece set neck with a Merbau centre strip.....Golden Age vintage pups, 24.75" scale, low action, awesome clean sounds and great vintage hard rock gain eg. AC/DC.......cheers folks......Jon
I agree with the general concensus achieved thus far being that BOTH styles of instrument are built by 'luthiers'. I always understood the term/occupation title to be "builder of stringed intruments"...including violins, lyres, electric guitars, acoustic guitars etc.
So if one's time is "occupied" by building "stringed instruments" then I would consider them to be a luthier. IMO all the other slants on this are in the category referred to as "tone voodoo".....perhaps "luthier voodoo".
A luthier who has built 1 instrument has still occupied their time as a luthier.......whereas a luthier that has built 100 instruments over many years would be a VERY EXPERIENCED and most would say QUALIFIED luthier......both are luthiers though. Why would luthiery be treated differently to any other vocation? I think varying levels of experience is the key.
Now, a reference was made to "Death Metal" as being a marketing ploy?? Just to clarify and inform seeing as this is one of my favourite styles of music.....Death Metal is a term coined to describe metal bands that use lyrics that are pre-occupied with Death
......it was never meant to be popular and was never meant to be marketed! The current leading band in this genre OPETH from Sweden, combine an incredible mixture of stringed intruments.....from the heaviest wall of high gain sound to the cleanest of acoustic ensembles.....from evil growl vocals to incredible clean baritones with harmonies you need to hear to understand. To me, this is the holy grail.....these guys can do it all musically and it is not done to achieve sales targets, they feed an inner passion......that's MUSIC, regardless of the style! I can't stand the 'shaky/shaky' rubbish either....that term made me laugh though As for electric vs acoustic. I too love and play both instruments although I have only built electric guitars. There are several reasons why. I understand humidity to be a major factor that can have disastrous effects on acoustic thin timbers and as I don't have a humidity controlled work environment and live in a high rainfall area that also gets bloody hot, I am reluctant to 'suffer the consequences' and disappointment of this wild card. Secondly, I have a nice Maton 6 string with QLD Maple back and sides, spruce top etc and I am reasonably satisfied that this covers a lot of the scope of what an acoustic can do (settle, settle!). I write all of my songs on this and then record with electrics and sometimes mic up the Maton. To me, an electric guitar offers far more scope for BODY SHAPE VARIATION & TONAL FLEXIBILITY/APPLICATION.
Acoustic guitars are THE instrument for folk music, campfires (playing around them!) and any situation where electricity is not on hand or volume is an issue. For some reason, my burning desire that we all have to build stringed instruments, is not ignited for acoustics.....but one day I would love to build one.....might get the bug then hey?
Here's one of my favourite builds I completed earlier this year. 1/4 sawn Vic Ash Body, Blackwood top, Gidgee fretboard, Blackwood 3 piece set neck with a Merbau centre strip.....Golden Age vintage pups, 24.75" scale, low action, awesome clean sounds and great vintage hard rock gain eg. AC/DC.......cheers folks......Jon
www.etherealguitars.com.au
LOL..thats what they said about punk. Here you had all these punks spouting on about how shameful it was to live on into old age......fast forward to 2008 and most of them are still alive trundling around in their wheelchairs, some of them still wearing safety pins through their noses and spitting at passers by.Ethereal Guitars wrote:
Death Metal is a term coined to describe metal bands that use lyrics that are pre-occupied with Death
The trouble with doing things that are not considered popular or cool or marketable is that eventually everyone ends up doing and it becomes popular and cool and very marketable.
Welcome to the forum Jon.
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Ethereal Guitars
- Wandoo
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sebastiaan56
- Blackwood
- Posts: 1279
- Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:23 am
- Location: Blue Mountains
Welcome Jon, Ive leered at your work on other forums. I look forward to doing the same here.
BTW, Dont mind my slagging off different music styles, its well known that I regard myself as the paragon of musical taste
Actually, Im also renowned for my modesty..... Seriously, your point about knowledge is the salient one,
Martin, wasnt it The Who who sang "I hope I die before I get old" They are playing in the Hunter Valley in March next year..... Roger Daltry was born in 1944.
BTW, Dont mind my slagging off different music styles, its well known that I regard myself as the paragon of musical taste
Actually, Im also renowned for my modesty..... Seriously, your point about knowledge is the salient one,Martin, wasnt it The Who who sang "I hope I die before I get old" They are playing in the Hunter Valley in March next year..... Roger Daltry was born in 1944.
make mine fifths........
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Ethereal Guitars
- Wandoo
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- Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:44 am
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Thanks for the kind words Sebastiaan. No worries at all! A good web forum encourages different views and opinions.....nobody is right and nobody is wrong when it comes to these opinion issues.....I love em 
I reckon Pink Floyd are another example of a band that combined acoustic and electric guitars really well......how good is Dave Gimour's solo sound, and what about the famous 12 string intro to Wish you were here?
Someone also mentioned Knopfler.....he's another of my guitar heros!
"Talkin about my generation.........
I reckon Pink Floyd are another example of a band that combined acoustic and electric guitars really well......how good is Dave Gimour's solo sound, and what about the famous 12 string intro to Wish you were here?
Someone also mentioned Knopfler.....he's another of my guitar heros!
"Talkin about my generation.........
www.etherealguitars.com.au
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Ethereal Guitars
- Wandoo
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