What is wrong with this Martin Guitar

[Nick]

Don't know about any tonal differences but it would make my anally retentive nature for 'finished' looking things run screaming from the room. Just couldn't bring myself to charge a customer for a guitar that looked like the braces had just been torn from the tree Even in an area that generally wasn't seen. I know, call me old fashioned

[charangohabsburg]

Nick, you are not old fashioned. When I mentioned trapped dead insects causing buzzes I was not inventing anything. I have received more than one guitar to fix their mysterious buzzes and the he culprit was trapped dirt of any kind due to rough surfaces. Smooth surfaces are much less prone to such contamination, and cleanup of the insides of a guitar which was not kept in a case for a long time is really a PIA I can tell you.

[JJ model]

wow! looks like I have to recall all my guitars and scratch those braces inside to make them sound better, I hope my customers don't hurt their fingers when they dig their hands inside the guitars.

[Lillian]

I remember Mario discussing this and I believe that he was saying that if you had a look inside a lot of pre-war Martins you would find evidence of saw marks and other imperfections (eg fuzzy braces) and it didn't seem to affect the tone of those instruments.

Told you my memory was faulty.


Just to add to the mixture. I have an 1850's Martin parlor in the shop. The bracing is as smooth as a baby's bottom. I can't tell you what it sounds like, one of the tuner gears broke. But C. F. Martin felt the same way most of us do about the insides of his guitars. Smooth.

I have the pleasure of its company to take measurements, photographs and impressions so I can draw up a set of plans. It will go back to it's owner soon and then off to possibly get repaired. I need to get/borrow a decent camera to get pictures of it. And I need to rig up a way to get a picture/xray of the bracing. Its fan braced.

[Nick]

And I need to rig up a way to get a picture/xray of the bracing. Its fan braced.

A strong light placed inside the soundbox Lillian, should present you with a nice 'shadow' of the bracing from outside then it's just a matter of whipping around with a rule to get the relevant dimensions you are after & a pic or two. Make sure it ain't a naked bulb/globe though...don't wanna be settin' this baby on fire! & I'm guessing she'd be tinder dry in there.

[Lillian]

That's my problem Nick, finding a light source that is bright enough that won't get hot. I tried a cluster of LEDs but not bright enough. Next up to try one of those low energy bulbs that looks like a twisted tube. I'll see what a 100w feels like first and if it doesn't get that hot, I'll see how it bright it is.

You are right, she has had time to season. I'd love to hear her sing. I hear the 1838 parlor and it always amazes me the throaty sound these little one can make.

[Kerplunk]

That's my problem Nick, finding a light source that is bright enough that won't get hot. I tried a cluster of LEDs but not bright enough...

Hi Lillian, if you have no luck with the "low energy bulbs that looks like a twisted tube" (a compact fluorescent bulb?) and the local dentist/x-ray equipped surgery won't come to the party either, you could try picking up one of the high-intensity LED torches you can get from most outdoor stores; the newer model high-intensity LED's are insanely powerful nowadays and can kick out over 200 lumen's each -> the one's I borrowed from a friend a couple of years ago had 2 bulbs in it and that thing was the equivalent of a car headlight on high-beam, and they've improved since then!.

If that still doesn't work (e.g. you can't safely cram the torch into the soundbox) and you're getting really desperate, you could always try rigging up a DIY x-ray machine (a la the "Burn Notice" episode where they set one up in the trunk of a car to detect the shape of a gun in a box when it was later placed in the trunk).

Here's a thread on how: http://community.discovery.com/eve/foru ... 7719369101

According to this thread all the things they do on "Burn Notice" are realistically possible as apparently the show's technical director tries them out at home first beforehand **.

How cool would it be to have that guy's job! ....
.....
..... and how much would it suck to be that guy's next-door neighbour.

** I'm willing to believe this as about a year ago I was having trouble getting reception on my wireless modem, and then remembered seeing the DIY "cantenna" on a "Burn Notice" episode from a few months beforehand. I looked up how to design one (you need to get a can the right length and diameter for the frequencies you're aiming to recieve), built it, and hey-presto, I was getting better reception.

[Kim]

That's my problem Nick, finding a light source that is bright enough that won't get hot. I tried a cluster of LEDs but not bright enough. Next up to try one of those low energy bulbs that looks like a twisted tube. I'll see what a 100w feels like first and if it doesn't get that hot, I'll see how it bright it is.

Reeeeaaaallly long exposure helps Lil.

You set up everything ready with the camera on a tripod and the aperture set manually with its position noted. Because the light penetrating through the spruce is likely to be influenced toward the 'red' spectrum, it may also pay to select "incandescent" indicated by a little light bulb on most selector dials. You them block the sound and bridge pin holes to prevent any light from escaping and causing over exposure, you turn out the lights in the room so you are now in complete darkness, open the shutter which has also been set to manual so as long as your finger is on the button the shutter remains open, and 'then' you turn the lights on inside the guitar.

The process of determining what settings best suit your set up is to leave the shutter open for a few 'timed' seconds and look at the result. You then experiment with exposure times v aperture settings until you've made the best of a bad photographic situation...the trade off will always be 'graininess' v 'under exposure'

Cheers

Kim

[Lillian]

Thanks Kerplunk. I'll have a look at it this weekend. Mind putting your given name in your signature?

Kim, I'll have to see if my little digital will allow for a cable release. If not I'll have to see if I can borrow a camera, don't think I'll be able to talk the CFO into a higher end camera just for this. But you never know

[Kerplunk]

Thanks Kerplunk.

No worries.

Mind putting your given name in your signature?

Whoops, sorry; I'm not used to this ANZLF thing of signing your name at the ends of posts yet.

'Only forum I've stumbled across so that does this. Also the nicest one. Zero trolls/reactionary idiots. Not sure what it is about luthiery but (from the luthiers I've met so far) it seems to attract only people with a brain and the manners to match.

By the way, speaking of signatures, I notice you've listed yourself as being in Washington; is that the D.C. one or the west coast one? The reason I ask is I did a road trip a few years ago down the west coast of the U.S. and made the decision to take the long way round on my way through Washington State and drove 'round the Olympic Peninsula. Boy was that the right decision! What a place. Amongst all the other nature and wildlife it had glorious forests.

If you're living in that neck of the woods and haven't been there already I'd highly recommend it.

Well, time for me to hit the sack.

Cheers!,
Al.

[Lillian]

Whoops, sorry; I'm not used to this ANZLF thing of signing your name at the ends of posts yet.

'Only forum I've stumbled across so that does this. Also the nicest one. Zero trolls/reactionary idiots. Not sure what it is about luthiery but (from the luthiers I've met so far) it seems to attract only people with a brain and the manners to match.

By the way, speaking of signatures, I notice you've listed yourself as being in Washington; is that the D.C. one or the west coast one? The reason I ask is I did a road trip a few years ago down the west coast of the U.S. and made the decision to take the long way round on my way through Washington State and drove 'round the Olympic Peninsula. Boy was that the right decision! What a place. Amongst all the other nature and wildlife it had glorious forests.

If you're living in that neck of the woods and haven't been there already I'd highly recommend it.

Well, time for me to hit the sack.

Cheers!,
Al.

[Lillian]

Sorry, phone rang in the middle of editing that.



Al, you can add it to your profile. That way you don't have to sign your post.

I'm in Washington State, but during the wilds of my youth I lived in DC. Very different places.

Glad you took the long route. The views are much better and far less traffic. Yes we've been. That was one of the first things we did when we move out here. Now, we go out about once a year or so just to get away from the congestion.

I live south of Seattle and north of Tacoma. I can see the Olympics on my way into work. On a good day, I can see Mt Baker, to the north, Mt Rainer to the south and the Olympics and I remember why we wanted to move up here. And then the clouds come back and its another 9 10 months before I get to see them again and things dry out.