7 course Renaissance Lute Build

Talk about musical instrument construction, setup and repair.

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zendo
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Post by zendo » Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:29 am

Kim wrote:
zendo wrote: Hello Kim, Just got my bottle warmer.. very fancy. What temperature do you use? I'm new to this, making a Baroque Lute so any help would be appreciated. Cheers, Robert
Hi Robert,

Great for the forum to have you join us. Sorry I have not responded sooner but have been away jamm'in with the lads :D

As Allen suggest 140f is just fine and I stick with this only because 'legend' has it that going above 150 will cause some kind of conversion of the proteins within hide glue lessening it's bond strength. However I suspect the reality is that your standard 'old time' furniture workshop of the 30's which kept the 'never ending' pot of glue bubbling away in the corner and simply added more pearl or water every shift to achieve the correct 'drip from the spoon' did not give any real consideration to anything as technical as a thermometer.

Instead I feel it is more probable that the temperature and consistency of glue was controlled with simple instructions dealt to apprentices along the lines of "If you let that dry out, get too runny, too thick, or boil, you'll be eating that for your lunch 'sunshine', and when you have licked every last bit clean from the pot, you'll get a thick ear for ur sweets boy". Crude yes, but obviously affective as that glue is still holding pieces together today with no sign of letting up. :D

Cheers

Kim
A much appreciated bit of information -thanks. It's quite a steep learning curve for me. I have some rabbit skin glue left over from my oil painting. I use it on stretched canvas before applying the gesso undercoat... do you think this would be ok for using on the lute? I have asked Martin also so hope there is a consistent opinion. The baby bottle ... it's nice to be improvisational :idea: .... in time I will post photos of my efforts... cheers, Robert
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kiwigeo
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Post by kiwigeo » Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:52 am

Hi Robert,

Best you you post your queries up here rather than on the Ubeaut forum. Im on an oil rig with bad comms at the moment and for some reason the ANZLF forum runs faster than the Ubeaut forum.

Dont know about rabbit glue....Im just using the Ubeaut hide glue I got a while back from Carbatec in Adelaide. It seems to work ok.

Cheers Martin
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Post by kiwigeo » Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:55 am

Working three week rotation at the moment which is unusual...usually I work a well from start to finish which can take from 3 to 4 weeks. The current job is going to last for a year so for once in ly life I can make a few plans.
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Dominic
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Post by Dominic » Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:04 am

Hey Martin, been following your progress with interest. Must be looking forward getting your scrapers onto it and seeing a lute shell merges from under all that glue and tape.

My first experience of hide glue was with the stuff I got from Carba-Tec and if yours is anything like that I am sure it is one of the stinkiest glues on the planet and looks to have lots of impurities. It was not very clear with a dark brown tint.

Allen very kindly sent me some from his stash and it has hardly any smell and is noticeably a better more purified quality as well. This stuff was very clear like light honey. Not sure where it was from (Allen) but I think this is the same as LMI sells.

Cheers
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Bob Connor
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Post by Bob Connor » Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:16 am

Dom

Allen gets his glue from Tools for Working with Wood in the States. Same place as I get mine.

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merc ... egory_Code
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kiwigeo
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Post by kiwigeo » Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:36 pm

Bob, what strength glue do you buy? The 192gram?
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Post by Allen » Sun Jul 19, 2009 1:13 pm

Mine is the 192, and I'd say that it's noticeably easier to use than some of the dark brown stuff I got from Gilet's. So easy in fact that it's my preferred glue for bindings now. If that gives you an idea about it's ease of use.

Used it on the herringbone and Cocobolo on the recent ones. Both pieces at the same time. No worries.
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Bob Connor
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Post by Bob Connor » Sun Jul 19, 2009 1:39 pm

kiwigeo wrote:Bob, what strength glue do you buy? The 192gram?
Sure do.
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Post by Lillian » Sun Jul 19, 2009 1:40 pm

Martin, I use their 192 high clarity.
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Post by kiwigeo » Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:50 pm

Thanks Lillian I was just about to ask about the two 192gram glues they offer.
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Post by Allen » Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:56 pm

Mine is the high clarity as well Martin. As I recall, it was about $70 AU landed on my door for 5 lbs. Enough to use up some of the stash in the tonewood bunker.
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zendo
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Post by zendo » Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:53 pm

kiwigeo wrote:Hi Robert,

Best you you post your queries up here rather than on the Ubeaut forum. Im on an oil rig with bad comms at the moment and for some reason the ANZLF forum runs faster than the Ubeaut forum.

Dont know about rabbit glue....Im just using the Ubeaut hide glue I got a while back from Carbatec in Adelaide. It seems to work ok.

Cheers Martin
I'll give the Rabbit Skin Glue a shot anyway... probably on some off cuts before the real thing.. It certainly works well under an oil painting and it is animal hide... could be what was used in the 16/17 th centuries... but I don't know... could try the net... I'm at carbatec tomorrow to get a chisel so I'll pick up some glue... cheers, Robert :D
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Post by Lillian » Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:34 pm

Do a search for rabbit glue. I vaguely remember a thread where we discussed glues and particularly rabbit glue.
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kiwigeo
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Post by kiwigeo » Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:22 pm

Wabbit glue!!??? Wascally Waaaabbit glue???

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kiwigeo
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Post by kiwigeo » Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:34 pm

Back from work and fighting a cold but I managed to get a few hours in the shop yesterday and today and have got all the ribs glued in. It all looks a mess of hide glue and binding tape but tomorrow the outside of the bowl will get a clean up before it comes off the mould.


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Dennis Leahy
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Post by Dennis Leahy » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:23 am

Way to go, Martin! That has got to feel good getting all those ribs to form a bowl back. Well done!

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Post by WaddyT » Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:09 am

Great progress Martin! If you do another half, you'll have a slightly misshapen football! American style football! :D
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Post by Lillian » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:50 am

An armadillo is born!

Martin, it looks great, even before its cleaned up. Its coming together very nicely.

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Post by John Steele » Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:13 pm

[quote="Lillian"]An armadillo is born!

OK, I was thinking 1/2 a walnut shell but I'm from California and they are all around me. Cool project Martin. I can't wait to see the neck.
J
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Post by Allen » Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:32 pm

I bet he's not even sleeping, just waiting for that glue to cure, so he can get that scraper out.
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Dominic
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Post by Dominic » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:04 pm

Scraping the dillo is gonna be so much fun Martin. Makes me want to go make a gluey rosewood mess just so I can scrape it clean also. Must be very proud parent.
Lillian, if you were in WA it would half a honky nut. :wink:
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Lillian
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Post by Lillian » Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:13 am

Actually Dom, I am in WA. Just not the right one. I live in Washington state. We abbreviate it WA.

So, what's a honky nut?
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Kim
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Post by Kim » Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:47 am

Robert,

I have had no experience with rabbit glue but it does seem to hold rabbits together quite well, perhaps we should ask Warren :D

Lillian wrote:Actually Dom, I am in WA. Just not the right one. I live in Washington state. We abbreviate it WA.

So, what's a honky nut?
Lillian,

A honky nut, or gum nut, is a seed 'pod' from a gum tree. They grow in bunches on the ends of branches and are shed on mass by the tree when brown and ripe. If you pick them whilst still green they are heavy with moisture and quite hard making them very effective ammo to throw from the roof of your house at innocent passers-bye. Must confess that it's been quite a while since I done that which is strange as it use to lift my spirits so when ever my aim was true.

Here's and image, these ones are just right for chucking at people, nice and heavy and hard. Yep, the great creator sure did have the thinking cap on when designing these buggers:

Image

Anyhow, I'm off to get the ladder, it will be dawn soon and the popularity of the morning constitutional has led to an influx of fast moving, silver haired targets wearing brightly coloured track suits. Bloody self funded retirees pound up and down the footpath at 6am with Perry Como blazing away in their ears, I'll give them a 'touch' with an 'eye' pod their not likely to forget in a hurry. :twisted:

Cheers

Kim
Last edited by Kim on Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Lillian
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Post by Lillian » Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:18 am

:lol: Thanks Kim for the explanation. I'd love to see video of your morning exercise, but I would hate for there to be photographic evidence.

How big are the nuts. The lute back is about the same size as an adult armadillo.


Sorry about the detour Martin. Hope you are feeling better.
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Hesh1956
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Post by Hesh1956 » Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:30 am

Did I read that correctly: Kim likes to hit old people in the head with his nuts and Lillian wants to see a video of same.... :D Sounds pretty kinky... :D
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