Joining WRC soundboard

[Steve.Toscano]

So i've started making my first WRC top and the bloody join won't stay, using titebond original.
Joined it up yesterday, waited 2.5 hours, took it out and the join just fell apart.
Planed it back this morning, removing any left over titebond, gave it another shot, waited 6 hours this time, and again it just fell apart, not as easily as yesterday but still there was almost no hold.
The glue is good - joined a spruce top yesterday morning and it held fine.

Any tricks to joining WRC plates?
i havent worked with the stuff before, is it common for the joint to take an extra long time to hold?

What's some other options? epoxy? Or be more patient?

cheers

[kiwigeo]

Questions:

1. how are you dressing the faces of the joint? ie are you shooting them with a plane, sanding etc?
2. what is your set up for applying closing force to the joint while glue sets?
3. how do you apply glue to the joining surfaces? ie straight from the bottle then smeared with a handy finger...

Re wait time I usually leave my AR glue joints clamped for at least 5 hours..ideally overnight.

[simso]

your wood is not to wet or too dry,

If to wet then longer drying times needed, if too dry the glue is not getting a chance to soak into the grain

Steve

[demonx]

I ignore whatever cure times the glue bottle says and leave all laminations overnight.

Taking clamps off to work on a piece after a couple hours is simply asking for trouble, but in saying that, Titebond usually gets pretty tacky in only minutes.

Resurface, glue, clamp, then leave overnight. See what happens.

[routout]

I did read a while ago that guys made the joints too smooth and the glue had nothing to suck into it relies on a slight vacuum,and Martin also found this to be a problem so for want of a better explanation they made the faces a little fury so to speak.

[mhunte12]

Not strictly the same, but I had a nightmare of an experience whilst glassing a hollow wooden surfboard with a WRC stripe, where the epoxy just would not adhere to the cedar at all.

The eventual cure (no pun intended) was to wipe the surfaces with (I think) acetone, which removed the natural oils (which apparently WRC is rich with) from the surface, and allowed the resin to adhere.

Stripping off the (mostly) cured epoxy / glass from the otherwise perfect finish was not an experience I really want to repeat in this lifetime...

[kiwigeo]

Not strictly the same, but I had a nightmare of an experience whilst glassing a hollow wooden surfboard with a WRC stripe, where the epoxy just would not adhere to the cedar at all.

The eventual cure (no pun intended) was to wipe the surfaces with (I think) acetone, which removed the natural oils (which apparently WRC is rich with) from the surface, and allowed the resin to adhere.

Stripping off the (mostly) cured epoxy / glass from the otherwise perfect finish was not an experience I really want to repeat in this lifetime...

Giving the surfaces a wipe with a solvent (meths, acetone....ya grandfathers 50 year old scotch) is certainly a good precaution to take and it only takes a few seconds.....but Ive often glued up really oily wood like Indian Rosewood using AR glue and not had issues.

Stripping off cured epoxy.......that would make the end of job beers taste even better

[mhunte12]

It was worse than that - some colour leached out of the cedar and tinted the paulownia. Eventually (post acetone) some sprayed on pinlines helped cover up the damage, but the whole episode has put me off using WRC for anything ever again

[Steve.Toscano]

Thanks all for your suggestions.

Sorry, havent been online for awhile.
Turns out it just needed longer to set, left it in the jig for 48hours this time - opened her up - solid.
I usually only leave my spruce tops in the jig for 2hours, then carefully remove and let 'air' for a day.

What a pain, this is my first and probably last WRC soundboard.

[Steve.Toscano]

I did read a while ago that guys made the joints too smooth and the glue had nothing to suck into it relies on a slight vacuum,and Martin also found this to be a problem so for want of a better explanation they made the faces a little fury so to speak.

To avoid this i very lightly run some 180grit sandpaper (one pass on each plate) down both edges after planing. It just opens up the surface ever so slightly.

[kiwigeo]

Thanks all for your suggestions.

Sorry, havent been online for awhile.
Turns out it just needed longer to set, left it in the jig for 48hours this time - opened her up - solid.
I usually only leave my spruce tops in the jig for 2hours, then carefully remove and let 'air' for a day.

What a pain, this is my first and probably last WRC soundboard.

Just leave 'em in overnight. The important thing when deciding how long to leave your top under clamps is to maximise beer drinking time

48 hours is way too long.....overnight is just right.

[Steve.Toscano]

Just leave 'em in overnight. The important thing when deciding how long to leave your top under clamps is to maximise beer drinking time

48 hours is way too long.....overnight is just right.

Thanks Martin, the reason I leave my spruce tops in the jig for `2hours is so that air can get around the join while the titebond is still setting - something i heard was a good thing to do a long time ago - not sure if it is or not but has always worked for me .