To fix or not to fix?
To fix or not to fix?
Mate of mine has an '85 Maton Messiah MSIII.
When he bought it new it was an absolutely beautiful guitar to play.
Over the years, however, it has degraded somewhat and tonight he brought it to me to see if I could rectify a buzz on the high E between 13 and 16.
It seems the guitar has been allowed to become too dry for too long. The soundboard has four splits and the bridge has rolled a bit.- (just enough to lower the action enough to create the buzz) the rest of the fret board is very playable and the guitar, on a whole, sounds fine despite the splitting top.
In the short-term the buzz can be addressed with a sanding bar run over the higher frets but the guitar really needs a new top.
My question is:- Is this guitar more valuable as a tired old beauty left "as is"?... OR would it be better to replace the top etc?... OR is it smarter to cleat the splits and add strength to the sagging soundhole area?
I'll get some pics up asap.
All opinions appreciated.
When he bought it new it was an absolutely beautiful guitar to play.
Over the years, however, it has degraded somewhat and tonight he brought it to me to see if I could rectify a buzz on the high E between 13 and 16.
It seems the guitar has been allowed to become too dry for too long. The soundboard has four splits and the bridge has rolled a bit.- (just enough to lower the action enough to create the buzz) the rest of the fret board is very playable and the guitar, on a whole, sounds fine despite the splitting top.
In the short-term the buzz can be addressed with a sanding bar run over the higher frets but the guitar really needs a new top.
My question is:- Is this guitar more valuable as a tired old beauty left "as is"?... OR would it be better to replace the top etc?... OR is it smarter to cleat the splits and add strength to the sagging soundhole area?
I'll get some pics up asap.
All opinions appreciated.
"Tuoba-esra si od I gnihtyreve."
Re: To fix or not to fix?
Pics aren't really showing much....apologies.
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- MM3.JPG (37.61 KiB) Viewed 13509 times
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- MM3.3.JPG (33.15 KiB) Viewed 13509 times
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- MM3.2.JPG (35.62 KiB) Viewed 13509 times
"Tuoba-esra si od I gnihtyreve."
Re: To fix or not to fix?
I'd be gluing and cleating the splits with Hot Hide glue
The Top definitely looks saveable
Is that a crack in the bridge too?
The Top definitely looks saveable
Is that a crack in the bridge too?
Re: To fix or not to fix?
Yeah, Jeff the bridge has two splits. How would I go about fixing the roll in the bridge? Would a spruce patch between it and the soundhole do it? Is it fixable with the box intact, ya reckon?
"Tuoba-esra si od I gnihtyreve."
Re: To fix or not to fix?
Hard to say from the photos, the actual bridge rotation does not look excessive
The saddle has rotated because of the split in the front of the bridge
You can either pull the bridge and glue it, pull and replace with a replica, or see if the parts will come together without string pressure and do a dust and superglue job.
The saddle has rotated because of the split in the front of the bridge
You can either pull the bridge and glue it, pull and replace with a replica, or see if the parts will come together without string pressure and do a dust and superglue job.
Re: To fix or not to fix?
The pic doesn't really show it but there's a dip in the top between the bridge and the end of the fretboard of about 4mm.
I don't think any braces have let go.
The saddle is interesting; about 6mm thick and curved.
I need to find out what kind of pickup it has before I mess with the bridge. It's probably an undersaddle piezo but I haven't confirmed that yet.
I don't think any braces have let go.
The saddle is interesting; about 6mm thick and curved.
I need to find out what kind of pickup it has before I mess with the bridge. It's probably an undersaddle piezo but I haven't confirmed that yet.
"Tuoba-esra si od I gnihtyreve."
Re: To fix or not to fix?
Looks good, dont replace. Cleat and glue and steam any bridge lifting areas flat again
Re: To fix or not to fix?
From what I read here, it seems the top is "bellying". I once fixed my daughter's guitar with a bridge doctor device. Very simple to install and it worked well, though it may not solve the problem for every guitar.
Check out http://www.jldguitar.net/ for more info. Stewmac sell them too.
Miguel
Check out http://www.jldguitar.net/ for more info. Stewmac sell them too.
Miguel
Re: To fix or not to fix?
With a budget allocation of zero dollars on this repair I have weighed up your advice and started the fix.
I managed to pull the split bridge back together and lined the slot on one side with a sliver of brush box.
The saddle sits on top of a piezo wire shrouded in material similar to plastic fuel pipe.
To adjust for the roll I have glued a shim of hardwood onto the underside of the saddle and sanded it on a slight angle so as to make it stand more perpendicular as well as adding a tad more string height to the treble strings.
Interesting things about this guitar is that it has double X bracing.
It also has a spruce bridge patch which has chewed out between B and D because it is so soft.
Although the guitar hasn't spent time in direct sunlight or copped a lot of heat, it has spent a lot of its life on a guitar stand in a sunlit room. This has been enough to turn the black and white purfling to beige and white.
The cracks in the top are next but I have one query about how to re-glue one of them....The crack closest to centre runs exactly along the edge of the top's centre-strip. The strip is only a short piece between the tail-block and the intersection of the X that sits behind the bridge.
As the strip and top are on different planes it is not practical to cleat unless the cleat was 'stepped'...but this sounds very difficult to pull off. If I could mask either side of the split and fill with glue would this suffice and what glue would be preferable?
Thanks in advance.
(I have traced the cracks on the picture to show what I mean.)
I managed to pull the split bridge back together and lined the slot on one side with a sliver of brush box.
The saddle sits on top of a piezo wire shrouded in material similar to plastic fuel pipe.
To adjust for the roll I have glued a shim of hardwood onto the underside of the saddle and sanded it on a slight angle so as to make it stand more perpendicular as well as adding a tad more string height to the treble strings.
Interesting things about this guitar is that it has double X bracing.
It also has a spruce bridge patch which has chewed out between B and D because it is so soft.
Although the guitar hasn't spent time in direct sunlight or copped a lot of heat, it has spent a lot of its life on a guitar stand in a sunlit room. This has been enough to turn the black and white purfling to beige and white.
The cracks in the top are next but I have one query about how to re-glue one of them....The crack closest to centre runs exactly along the edge of the top's centre-strip. The strip is only a short piece between the tail-block and the intersection of the X that sits behind the bridge.
As the strip and top are on different planes it is not practical to cleat unless the cleat was 'stepped'...but this sounds very difficult to pull off. If I could mask either side of the split and fill with glue would this suffice and what glue would be preferable?
Thanks in advance.
(I have traced the cracks on the picture to show what I mean.)
- Attachments
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- messiah top cracks.JPG (32.24 KiB) Viewed 13288 times
"Tuoba-esra si od I gnihtyreve."
Re: To fix or not to fix?
Here's a pic of the bridge now.
- Attachments
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- Messiah bridge repair.JPG (38.35 KiB) Viewed 13285 times
"Tuoba-esra si od I gnihtyreve."
Re: To fix or not to fix?
Nice one Dekka
.
So I take it you Fixed !
Lucky for your mate it was not a CC .
Cheers,




So I take it you Fixed !
Lucky for your mate it was not a CC .
Cheers,
Paul .
Re: To fix or not to fix?
Not yet, Paul. Still got the splits in the top to do.
"Tuoba-esra si od I gnihtyreve."
Re: To fix or not to fix?
All finished. Did only bare minimum. Top will be replaced down the track but for the moment it is playing like it used to, i.e., beautifully. Mate is happy....so much so that he offered me an old mystery guitar (which I'll post on another thread.)
"Tuoba-esra si od I gnihtyreve."
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