Filling minor gaps

[Frenchy]

Hi there

I'm currently building a blackwood weissie, and have some issues with minor gaps filling along the bindings and the rosette. I did many tests on scrap woods, with titebond glue, standard white wood glue, super glue or epoxy mixed with fine dust but I always end with something too dark and far too visible.
Any of you guys has a magic trick ?
Seb

[demonx]

You'll probably get a lot of people saying not to have the gaps to start with.

One piece of advice I'll offer is that even if you make and color match a filler perfectly, the clear coat will make it a different color again and it'll stand out like dogs balls.

Ask me how I know this, actually, don't.

Post a couple pictures of what gaps you have and you might get a few intelligent responses on how to tackle the issue at hand.

Cheers.

[Frenchy]

you're damn right, and I definitely get that not having gaps IS the only good way to go. But it's the second guitar I'm building and I guess it will take a couple more to get on top of the process.

Here's a few pics :

[Bob Connor]

To fix the gap in the bindings just borrow you missus's iron (she won't mind), heat the affected area and clamp (if possible) or re- tape it with LMI paper tape or similar or wrap it with rubber bands (I use the rubber binding strap from LMI and wrap the entire instrument after I have taped it)

Not too much you can do with the rosettes once they're in. In your situation the least noticeable solution may be to fill it with black seeing as though the purflings are black/white/black. You may however be better off leaving it and filling the gap with CA after you've sprayed the first few coats of laquer.

Regards

[nnickusa]

Mate. Drop fill them and forget them. No one besides you will ever even notice them.....

[Allen]

They certainly aren't too bad for your second effort. Don't be so hard on yourself.

Bob's advice is spot on. Then just move on trying to improve on the next. But don't think that you will ever get it spot on. You will start to be even more critical of your work. But thankfully, it's only you in most cases that ever see's the little blemishes that let's people know that a person built the instrument. And not extruded from some CNC machine.

[Frenchy]

Thanks guys, very motivating answers. Just a question : I've used Titebond glue, so is it really possible to heat the area and clamp or tape ?

[Trevor Gore]

Yes! Fold up a paper towel, wet it, apply to gappy area, apply the hot iron, and you will soften both the wood and the glue. You'll likely have to clamp it rather than tape it, depends how thick your bindings are. Work around until you've closed all the gaps.

As Bob said, there's not much you can do about the rosette.

[demonx]

Are you going to grain fill and clear coat this?

If so you could fill with epoxy or super glue and it'll hide reasonably well. You'll know its there, but it won't stand right out.

[Frenchy]

Thanks all ! I'll try that trick tomorrow on the bindings.

Are you going to grain fill and clear coat this?

If so you could fill with epoxy or super glue and it'll hide reasonably well. You'll know its there, but it won't stand right out.

Hmmm.... I was more planning to get straight into the shellac process as I thought blackwood doesn't need a grain fill. Am I wrong ?

[Allen]

Rather depends on the look you want, and the procedures and products you are comfortable with. But yes, in my opinion Blackwood does need pore filling. I do at least 2 sessions with an epoxy pore fill on all of mine.

[Jeremy D]

I filled a few small binding gaps on my first build using this method http://www.lenaweelutherie.info/page6/p ... age14.html. It worked really well, I cannot even find them now. It was EIR with maple bindings however.

[Lutherie Gervais]

guys guys guys
filling gap with glue is not the way. it shrinks, sink and darker. Even if you really think you fill it good.

first souldnt of have THAT MUCH of gap. poor woodworking at the first place, sorry.

minor gap can happen.
if does, it woulndt be that gapped.

i say FIL-STIK ... it's a semi-hard putty that as multitude of colors. they DONT SHRINK, no need of glue, no need to level, just rub in.
Black one is great for polishing ebony and great as pore filling and buff on wenge per exemple.


work properly.

[Jeremy D]

Thanks for the tip about FIL-STIK "Lutherie Gervais".

Your other comments were pretty unhelpful though. He does state it is his second guitar and the gaps look pretty minor to me.

[Frenchy]

Cheers BBK

Don't worry for me, I easily admit my work is more than perfectible, but still I'm happy with the result...

I've checked the fil-stick, sounds like a good idea. Lutherie Gervais, can you tell me how this stuff will react with the finish, especially with a french polished shellac ?

[Jeremy D]

No worries Frenchy. I am on my second guitar as well so I know how you feel.

[nnickusa]

Hah, I'm on 4,5,6,7&8. The dread I'm working on (6, I think) I bound with mulga. That stuff was so hard I could not get it to fit the upper bout bends on the back, no matter what......I ironed them, dry, wet, well, you get it.....no go Joe......

What I did was to make an elliptical lozenge of the binding, tapering the ends so that it looked like a smile. Think of it like this. If the front is the smile, ie: curved bottom, and flat top, then the curved edge was a really fine wedge shape, like a knife edge.....I filled the gaps with glue and wiggled the fillet into place, taped and cleaned it up next day, and you can't tell it was there....

I used Fish glue, as I read it has less of a tell-tale tha Titebond.

I'll not be using Mulga again for bindings any time soon, I can tell you that.....

The Sassafras bindings on it's sister guitar (#5)were a treat......

[Jeremy D]

Hah, I'm on 4,5,6,7&8. The dread I'm working on (6, I think) I bound with mulga. That stuff was so hard I could not get it to fit the upper bout bends on the back, no matter what......I ironed them, dry, wet, well, you get it.....no go Joe......

What I did was to make an elliptical lozenge of the binding, tapering the ends so that it looked like a smile. Think of it like this. If the front is the smile, ie: curved bottom, and flat top, then the curved edge was a really fine wedge shape, like a knife edge.....I filled the gaps with glue and wiggled the fillet into place, taped and cleaned it up next day, and you can't tell it was there....

I used Fish glue, as I read it has less of a tell-tale tha Titebond.

I'll not be using Mulga again for bindings any time soon, I can tell you that.....

The Sassafras bindings on it's sister guitar (#5)were a treat......

Mate you are building so much faster than me. I think we both finished our first around the same time and I am just finishing off my second!

[colburge]

Geez, I wouldn't worry about it too much, I had to look twice to see the gaps.

Cheers

Col

[nnickusa]

Jeremy, it's just a matter of timing, mate. I had 4 and 5 on the go, but 6 was a commission. The others, well, I get a bit bored sometimes, and starting a new one gives me a dash of impetus....

I really need the next three sprayed in the next fortnight, as the weather is good....fingers crossed it'll stay that way until I get to it.....

In the same vein, I have glued up a lutz top and blackwood back--sides already waiting--for a parlour that will be next acoustic......the others are electrics.....

I WOULD like to have a few more hours in the week free.......

[Lutherie Gervais]

Cheers BBK

Don't worry for me, I easily admit my work is more than perfectible, but still I'm happy with the result...

I've checked the fil-stick, sounds like a good idea. Lutherie Gervais, can you tell me how this stuff will react with the finish, especially with a french polished shellac ?

yeah, sorry for that, might of sounded a bit too rude hehe

it's compatible with everything. the one I use as no wax in it, and after a scuff of 320 (my final sanding before applying finishing)
works great.
it's alot like laquer stick that you can heat/burn in you know ... but no need of heat, much cleaner, no drop out.

[Frenchy]

No worries mate, I was expecting a fast reading would be the cause of your comment.

"Lutherie Gervais" ... a very french name, hmm ?

[Lutherie Gervais]

Yep i'm from Montreal, Canada.