Build Log - Tassy Blackwood ES-335 Copy

[GourmetSaint]

I started this thread on another forum a few years ago and didn't get very far as I had to move a number of times in very short succession and, in most of the interim houses, had nowhere to do any woodworking.

Now settled in Canberra for a while and about to get stuck into and complete my first build. I'm basing the technique on that used by Chris Greed in the UK for his CS-336. http://greedguitars.blogspot.com.au/2007/10/2-plan.html

I've had the timber for quite a while and completed the initial joining and shaping. The blanks (dampened down to seen grain and fiddleback:

Top

Back

I have also purchased all my hardware (except pots):

Bolt-on neck (for 24.5" scale length)

Neck headstock

Headstock with Gotoh machines

I still have a little work to do on my contour drawings. The basic contours are designed, I just need to map them to the scale profile and check the required neck angle. Plans so far:

Es-335 v5.pdf

Scale plans. Drawn in Visio.

(681.7 KiB) Downloaded 567 times

I plan to use push/pulls for the volume pots if I can get them in and use the following wiring:

2h2v2t3w2sp.pdf

2 humbucker, 2 volume, 2 tone, 3-way switch. Series/poarallel.

(587.49 KiB) Downloaded 634 times

Couple of opinions wanted:
1. The original ES-335 had the mounting block inside extend from top to bottom giving two separate "wing chambers". Later (and smaller) models had the block extending to just below the level of the stop-piece, thus connecting the chambers and increasing volume (and reducing weight). Should I stay true to model or go for the additional routing?
2. Many early players of ES-335s criticised the jack being on the front of the guitar. I have also seen posts of owners having problems with damaging the jack sockets and the timber around. Should I move the jack to the edge ala later ES and CS models and use a jackplate or again stay true to model?

Looking

[GourmetSaint]

Looking forward to your feedback and comments.

Regards,
Mark

[Bruce McC]

Hello Mark and welcome to Canberra.
There are several forum members here in Canberra and we
have regular get togethers to compare notes and trade insults.
Our next get together will be on June 15. I will contact you via PM
with details. Hope you can make it.

[GourmetSaint]

Thanks Bruce. In the diary.

More on the build. I worked out that I won't have the room to install push-pull pots to give me the serial/parallel options. However, I've ordered the Seymour Duncan Triple Shot humbucker surrounds which have tiny dip switches in tbe surround giving quite a few sounds options with no real noticeable visual changes.

I would still appreciate some opinions regarding centre block and jack.

Cheers,
Mark

[ckngumbo]

Hi Mark,
I am planning to build a bass with a similar body. A little different with regard to cause but I had planned to seperate the two sides. I don't believe I would on a guitar however. . . no science just a thought.
Funny, I plan to place the jack on the front.
Watching this closely.
Thanks
Rob Francis

[Nick]

Hi Mark, I'm currently working on a CS356 (build thread over here viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5174) which, of course, uses the shortened central block. Personally I think having the block run continuously through is a bit of a pointless exercise, not sure if it helps sonically, these have fairly thick top and backs on them so don't think that such a small area of 'unsupported' soundboard and back is going to cause a feedback problem (which is why the through block was added originally, production wise it was just easy to have a single, continuous block). You also have some weight saving, especially being on the larger ES shape too .
With regards to the jack position, it's very much a personal preference issue. I prefer edge mounted simply because I like to run the cable up and over the strap button and on the edge seems to 'look' right to me, it also adds less clutter to the face of the guitar. There is no right or wrong way or technical benefits to any particular position and it very much comes down to how you want to do it.

[GourmetSaint]

The MOP piece for the logo arrived, along with the "bling" for the Southern Cross (see plans).

I've spent this week reworking the plans, especially the contour plan for the body carving.

I also drew a mockup of the neck I purchased and added it to the side elevation view of the body to calculate neck angle. I paid special attention to the height of the nut and the bridge (screwed up a couple of winds to allow up and down adjustments on setup.

It turns out to be an exact 3 degrees.

Check out the updated plans.

Does anyone know the theory on the angle offset for the tune-o-matic bridge and what the correct angle should be? I have an AutoCAD file with the layout but want to check.

[Nick]

Does anyone know the theory on the angle offset for the tune-o-matic bridge and what the correct angle should be? I have an AutoCAD file with the layout but want to check.

Not sure about the larger 335 Mark but the 356 uses a 4 degree neck angle (as per the numerous 'brands' of 356 plans out there, I say brands but all the copies I've seen all look like they've been drawn by the same draughtsman as they are pretty much identical), this gives me about a 9mm high pickup ring in the bridge position (5mm at the neck) and sets the bridge height right in the middle of it's post adjustment.

[GourmetSaint]

Does anyone know the theory on the angle offset for the tune-o-matic bridge and what the correct angle should be? I have an AutoCAD file with the layout but want to check.

Not sure about the larger 335 Mark but the 356 uses a 4 degree neck angle (as per the numerous 'brands' of 356 plans out there, I say brands but all the copies I've seen all look like they've been drawn by the same draughtsman as they are pretty much identical), this gives me about a 9mm high pickup ring in the bridge position (5mm at the neck) and sets the bridge height right in the middle of it's post adjustment.

I was asking about the angle between the centerline of the tune-o-matic bridge and the stop piece.

[Nick]

Does anyone know the theory on the angle offset for the tune-o-matic bridge and what the correct angle should be? I have an AutoCAD file with the layout but want to check.

I was asking about the angle between the centerline of the tune-o-matic bridge and the stop piece.

Sorry Mark, you mentioned nothing about the tailpiece in your original question so was a bit hard to work out exactly what you are asking but here goes....
The angle, when looking from the top, I couldn't quote the exact angle without drawing or calculating it out but the tune-o-matic is set up similar to an acoustic saddle, that being an 1/8th of an inch( 3.2mm) over the total length of the bridge
So it's +1/16th from the centre line on the treble side and -1/16th on the bass with all saddles sitting in the middle of their fore and aft adjustment.

[GourmetSaint]

Thanks for that. I did manage to find some more information on Stewmac and other places and confirmed the +/- 1/16" (+/- 1.5875 mm).

The position and dimensions of the bridge and stop-piece mounting is included on the contours layout. I will use a couple of these point to screw the template to the top and back for routing the contours.

I installed a woodworking vice onto my workbench this weekend. I have to get the updated contours etc printed on A1 during the week. I'll buy the MDF and cut the templates next week.

Updated plans attached.

[GourmetSaint]

Looking at my plans with the actual dimensions for the blanks, the thickness of the guitar at the edges will be 25mm. Too thin?

[Nick]

Looking at my plans with the actual dimensions for the blanks, the thickness of the guitar at the edges will be 25mm. Too thin?

You can make it what you want Mark, it's your guitar!
That being said, not sure with a 25mm thickness, that by the time you allow for top & back thickness that you will have room for the jack in there, should you decide to go for a side mounted plug. You may have to mount it on the front.
The 356 has a depth of 37mm at the edge but you are restricted by your blank's thicknesses so it may just be a matter of making the most of what you have available.

[GourmetSaint]

Had a go at MOP inlay on the week. My design is too thin in parts and it snapped, ruining the piece.
Later found John Duff at LABEL EXTREME in VIC who is laser cutting the MOP to my design and installing in my neck
headstock for a very reasonable price. Love outsourcing to pros when required.
On a tight budget until our August US trip so no more purchases forcat while. Except maybe a collet for a router bit...

[Nick]

Had a go at MOP inlay on the week. My design is too thin in parts and it snapped, ruining the piece.

Well done for having a go, it can be a daunting part of the exercise. I've found that the secret to not snapping thin sections is to keep the MOP hard down against the work board and make sure the blade is kept moving at a regular stroke (not too fast and not too slow) and also kept perpendicular to the work. As soon as you 'tilt' the blade it will bite into the shell and that's when snapping occurs.
Here's one I did on a guitar last year, the tuners give you some idea of the scale of it.

Earlier inlay complete.jpg (25.92 KiB) Viewed 21886 times

If you can, keep practicing, because if you can get the hang of it it's one of the most rewarding parts of building a guitar, not to mention....cheaper . Having said that, getting it laser cut is another great way to go, nice tidy, accurate lines.

[GourmetSaint]

Got the neck back from John at Extreme Labels. Great work on the MOP inlay.

I added (loose) the rhinestones to preview the final look. It'll be fine sanded and shellacked first.

[GourmetSaint]

Did the rough routing on the inside yesterday. 5mm depth on the top and 100 on the back. I had no template for this so just a 'steady" hand. I'm not brilliant with the router but as this will all be hidden on the inside...

[DarwinStrings]

I am curious about the cost of that "M" inlay Mark if you don't mind posting it?

Jim

[colburge]

That is a very professional result - you don't mind paying for something when it comes out as nice as that!

Cheers

Col

[GourmetSaint]

I am curious about the cost of that "M" inlay Mark if you don't mind posting it?

Jim

[GourmetSaint]

I am curious about the cost of that "M" inlay Mark if you don't mind posting it?

Jim

[GourmetSaint]

I am curious about the cost of that "M" inlay Mark if you don't mind posting it?

Jim

Under $40 for the shaped mop. Under $20 for the installation in the headstock.
Postage of the neck to and from John at cost from Auspost.

[DarwinStrings]

Not bad, not bad, not bad, thanks Mark.

Jim

[colburge]

I am curious about the cost of that "M" inlay Mark if you don't mind posting it?

Jim

Under $40 for the shaped mop. Under $20 for the installation in the headstock.
Postage of the neck to and from John at cost from Auspost.

I would have guessed $100, that is inexpensive really.

Col