What timber is this? Good for Electrics?

[willcall]

Hi, just went to "the Big Red Shed" at Darra, Brisbane where I came across these timbers.
They were not sure what species they were other than one may be yellow wood. They all come from North Qld and were salvaged from cyclone Yasi.

Anyone know what they are or if they would be good for electric guitar bodies & necks.

Cheers< Will

[rocket]

Some spotted gum, red ironbark maybe?
Rod.

[curly]

Given where the timbers come from it would be pretty difficult to answer exactly what timbers are there . The region is Australias most diverse for tree species . Assuming the recycled timbers were sourced locally ( which of course they may not have been ) you would then move on to what the timbers were previosly used for . If they were exposed to weather then they will be of durability rated species . Unfortunately given the region that still leaves a whole heap of possibilities . Genus could include Xanthostemon , Flindersia , Lophostemon ,Backhousia , Gmelina ,Syncarpia , Eucalypts of course and tens or hundreds of others .
The 5th photo shows what looks like a backsawn board of Crow's Ash , Flindersia australis but equally could be a weathered bit of Yellow Wood , Flindersia xanthoxylon ( probably wrong spelling , didn't google check ! ) . What you would find is most of the timbers will be hard and heavy , difficult to carve particularly and work with hand tools generally .
I might have it wrong but I think I'm looking at old durability structural timbers like Turpentine , Ironbark , Crows Ash , Johnston River Hardwood , Brush box , Penda and such .
One of the backsawn boards seeemed to show a faint ray fleck reminiscent of an Argyrodendron , a Booyong or Crow's foot Elm which can be really pretty and not so hard .
Looks like some good stuff there .
What I'd say is if there is something you really like , buy it and try it out . If you want to be more methodical send a sample off to the wood testing lab of the DPI in Brisbane and Garry will tell you what you have . From there you could cross reference it's properties and uses to Bootle or one of the other guides to figure what it's good for .
Pete

[nnickusa]

Curly's right, likely to have a nioce selection of Red Iron Bark, Blackbutt, Yellow Stringy, Spotted gum, etc. All likely to be class I or II hardwoods. Heavy, and strong.

My opinion, FWIW, is that electrics can be made out of virtually anything, even plywood. the real deciding factor is the electrics....surprise. A good strong timber for the neck is nice, but not necessary, with the advent of carbon fibre.....

I have and have had a number of plywood and laminate top guitars that folks playing them wouldn't believe were, until I showed them.

Electric gutiars are about the electrics. Full stop.

Mind you, nice timber LOOKS NICE, but has very little if anything to do with the sound of an electric guitar, plugged in.....Buy good pickups and electrics, and you have a nice sounding electric. Add pretty timber of your favourite flavour, and you have an electric guitar that looks and sounds good....If you can't be bothered finding pretty timber, paint it a nice colour....or put flowers on it....

For a bit of a laugh, go to the Bartolini site, and see how they want you to put your ear next to the Bass-side horn of your bass, and then, depending on the tone you hear, proceed thru the buying guide to have the "perfect" pickup.....gobbldygook to me. I'm about to make a tele style from some silky oak(cause it's pretty) and some spotted gum(cause I have some). I AM going to buy good pickups

By the way, Bartolini Bass Pups are top-notch, but the "mystique" is pure marketing driven shite....

[EricDownunder]

I thought the same about electrics untill recently, I have now been educated, electrics change with varying types of timber but most difference was with the design of chambers within the body, in the next month or so I plan to build one, as I will be flying blind I will post picks etc for all to pull apart or learn from. Yhe sound of a chambered electric is amazing.

[willcall]

Thanks, I have thought that it is mostly about the electric you use. And furthermore, the amp it is plugged into.
I had thought you needed to use strong neck timbers but carbon fibre should go a long way to strengthening any weaker necks.

I too have some spotted gum lying around although a bit green still.
Found some old pieces of Silky that would work for a neck in the shed aswell.
Have some Hoop pine large enough for a single piece body (with a pretty top added).

Cheers, Will

Curly's right, likely to have a nioce selection of Red Iron Bark, Blackbutt, Yellow Stringy, Spotted gum, etc. All likely to be class I or II hardwoods. Heavy, and strong.

My opinion, FWIW, is that electrics can be made out of virtually anything, even plywood. the real deciding factor is the electrics....surprise. A good strong timber for the neck is nice, but not necessary, with the advent of carbon fibre.....

I have and have had a number of plywood and laminate top guitars that folks playing them wouldn't believe were, until I showed them.

Electric gutiars are about the electrics. Full stop.

Mind you, nice timber LOOKS NICE, but has very little if anything to do with the sound of an electric guitar, plugged in.....Buy good pickups and electrics, and you have a nice sounding electric. Add pretty timber of your favourite flavour, and you have an electric guitar that looks and sounds good....If you can't be bothered finding pretty timber, paint it a nice colour....or put flowers on it....

For a bit of a laugh, go to the Bartolini site, and see how they want you to put your ear next to the Bass-side horn of your bass, and then, depending on the tone you hear, proceed thru the buying guide to have the "perfect" pickup.....gobbldygook to me. I'm about to make a tele style from some silky oak(cause it's pretty) and some spotted gum(cause I have some). I AM going to buy good pickups

By the way, Bartolini Bass Pups are top-notch, but the "mystique" is pure marketing driven shite....

[Nick]

My opinion, FWIW, is that electrics can be made out of virtually anything, even plywood. the real deciding factor is the electrics....surprise. A good strong timber for the neck is nice, but not necessary, with the advent of carbon fibre.....

I have and have had a number of plywood and laminate top guitars that folks playing them wouldn't believe were, until I showed them.

Electric gutiars are about the electrics. Full stop.

True up to a point Nick, I wouldn't add the full stop on there. I would have laughed years & years ago like you and said the same thing but after 15 years of building electrics, my mind is that timber choices for the body can actually affect the sound. Granted, it's not a huge difference and a good effects pedal can overide any tone coming from the guitar and shape it anyway you want.
The governing factor I would look at for an electric is weight, no guitar player wants to sling half a tonne of wood over their shoulder and play it for four hours no matter how good the sound (believe me,.... I did it on my first electric & it quickly became a sit down and play guitar ). Also looking at that lighter timber there's a fair bit of with-the-grain checking going on, even further down the board, I'd question it's stability as you don't want a split showing up twelve months into it's life.

[Tod Gilding]

This Wood species varying tone is a discussion that must have been had on every guitar forum and usually goes nowhere, but the ANZLF is different, so here are my two bobs worth,

I believe that both Nicks are right and that it has a lot to do with the density of the timbers used and the way that the electric guitar has been built,

As far as the density goes I think it is just like an Acoustic guitar where we now see Trevor Gore using this principle and utilising mass loaded sides, by changing the density or Mass we change the sound. Whilst this would have no effect with regard to the magnetic pickups it does have a bearing on the vibration of the strings and then therefore on the pickups, this also explains Eric’s experience with chambered guitars, by chambering we are decreasing mass.
And when I say the way that the electric guitar has been built I think all or most of this goes out the window if the pickups are insulated by being attached to a plastic pick guard it would then be as the other Nick say’s and all down to the electrics .

I have little doubt that if NickUSA built two identical guitars one with silky Oak and another with Mahogany and attached the pickups directly to the wood he would hear a slight difference in tone due to the different mass, but if he routed the body’s and attached the pups to a plastic pick guard then there should be little or no difference. As Trevor has pointed out, to add mass it needs to be bolted in with gusto and little pick guard screws and a plastic guard just wouldn’t cut it as added mass but would insulate the magnetic pups.

But also Happy to be shown that I am wrong.

[nnickusa]

OK, Nick, I'm with you, up to a point. For the average guitarist, there is little or no difference from the contribution the choice of timber makes. If you have a 490, a PAF or a Pearly gates makes much more difference.

YOu can hear the difference in the choice of timbers when strumming un-plugged, but that's not the point, is it?

WHen I hit my TS-808, thru my WEM bass dominator( the one Marshall copied for the bluesbreaker) driving thru the mullards, it doesn't matter much. The whole point of electric guitars, to my mind, is that you can jigger the electrics to give you whatever sound you want, within the limits of the pick ups, not the body wood.

The reality is that a magnetic pickup picks up the vibrations of the strings, which are isolated-to the best of our ability-from the timber of the guitar, and the choice of timber becomes moot.

I will allow that piezo, and other contact pickups are affected by the timber to a larger degree, but the signal path is still open to extravigant modifications before coming out of the amplifier.

Honestly, Nick, I value your opinion, and don't have the building experience you do, but I've been mucking around with electrics for 20-odd years and have never had a strong enough arguement made in any scientific manner(DUUUUDDDEE....THIS ROCKS!!! Doesn't count, as I told my young mate Tim) nor side by side testing, etc to convince me that we hear an appreciable difference due to the choice of timbers.

I await to stand corrected as I start building electrics this year, and will let you know if I see any difference. My initial build is going to be a testing platform, probably from, well, anything I can find laying around, and I'll swap electrics in and out. Later, when I put the electrics into permanent homes, I'll try to do some comparison studies(subjective only, as I lack lots of squiggly-line electrography-stuff)

I'm open to re-edjumicaficationing, when appropriate

[Bob Connor]

I reckon a lot of the sound comes out of the fingers regardless of the wood or the pickups being used.

Regards

[curly]

I reckon Bob's right ,
people keep saying my guitars sound great , but i'll be damned if I can get them to sound so good , I reckon it might just be in the fingers .
Bottom photo showns a red timber that looks a little like Mackay cedar , from memory Alstonia toona . It's a bit lighter than some of the other likely timbers in the lot , polishes out well .
Pete

[P Bill]

+1 for the Barts ( some people hate 'em )
+1 for the fingers and I would add strings, especially flat wound for basses, whether fretless or fretted.

My basses are piezo and responsive to vibrations, with 3 swimming pool chambers. I have used many different
timbers over the years and they all sound different but it's very nuanced and only at low volumes.

A good example of the difference chambering makes. A timber key from a xylophone before and after the central
hole is bored. ( bore one hole, rip, get 2 keys. )

[ozziebluesman]

I agree with Bob a guitars sound is all in the fingers.

Just like it'd not what you play but how you play is what gives you your unique tone.

Cheers

Alan

[Nick]

[quote="nnickusa"I await to stand corrected as I start building electrics this year, and will let you know if I see any difference. [/quote]

Not going to correct you Nick, you are right and especially with todays pedals and amps, you can get a strat style sounding so damn close to sounding like a double humbucker guitar through a Marshall stack that many would not be able to tell the difference, so the factor of timber choice is probably moot as you say. Plus as others have stated there are that many other factors that come into a 'sound' of an electric it would be hard to nail it down to the specifics of timber choice these days.
As I said, I'd be looking more at timber weight these days unless a customer wanted me to build with a particular timber/pickup combination. It would be an interesting experiment though, just to put this old argument to bed one way or the other, build to bodies to exactly the same specs just using two different timbers. Use the same neck and electrics & hardware just swapping them between the two and playing absolutely clean through an amp and record the two...hmmmmm.