GAS

[DaveW]

Hi
obviously Im new to this site but one thing Ive noticed is no one seems to talk about guitars they "have" ....guitars they have "played" ....guitars they "Want" guitars the like
by builders they "admire"
I know its a luthiers forum but I havent seen much about what you guys like/admire ,Im not trying to upset anyone but it seems like there is an awful lot of people looking but only a few discussing and then it seems to be about what they are building which leaves a lot of people to scared to post
questions or post posts
Is there a section for what Im talking about ?
dave

[P Bill]

Hi Dave,

I think the " want, played, have and admire part " comes out in the instruments people choose to build. That's probably the difference between a players forum and a builders forum. We don't get gas, we create gas for others to deal with.

[Kim]

I'm with Bill, when I first became involved with playing guitars I coveted the usual suspects hanging on the walls of guitar shops. But then after cutting my teeth on cheapies, first getting my own to play and sound better, and then some of my friends, people started bringing me more desirable guitars, and what I found in the most part was that many of them were put together with similar lack of attention to detail as the cheapies were and some even worse. You see enough of that accompanying the price tag is enough to cure anyone of GAS. To be fair, it is impossible to setup a guitar well for everyone direct from the factory, and even if you could, with shipping, changes in RH, and tyre kicker abuse, they would not stay that way.

But then I am not just talking set up here, I am talking about the fact that many guitars, in many cases even the old school instruments which it seems ebayers are so keen to involve themselves in a bidding war for are simply not all 'that' and never were. Because unlike today with CNC having come to the fore, in the 50's 60's 70's etc, etc, many companies had quite poor quality control. So even when new it was hit and miss buying a guitar. Add 40 or so years and there is a lot of problems floating around on the second-hand market and many have already been ruined by someone who didn’t know what they're doing when trying to save a buck..

The point is I've seen enough now to know where the very best guitars are coming from and that is the workshops of those with a passion and an understanding for making them. CNC is good and it has allowed companies with a handful of workers to produce consistently good instruments, but IMHO they will never be a match for the instruments of someone who knows what they are doing and wants to be there from rough sawn wood to polished paint doing it.

Cheers

Kim

[simso]

Hi
obviously Im new to this site but one thing Ive noticed is no one seems to talk about guitars they "have" ....guitars they have "played" ....guitars they "Want" guitars the like
by builders they "admire"

I think the above replys summarize it up.

I like all guitars, even cheapies, one of those cheapies sitting on the wall amongst 100 of them will be a treasure, with brand name comes consistency, there would be on a brand name run, 90 of those 100 guitars that could possibly be a treasure.

As repairers / luthiers we look beyond the name and look at the instrument itself. What you find can really surprise you.

[simso]

CNC is good and it has allowed companies with a handful of workers to produce consistently good instruments, but IMHO they will never be a match for the instruments of someone who knows what they are doing and wants to be there from rough sawn wood to polished paint doing it.

That is so true kim.

I think a lot of people and posters dont realise just what is involved to take a lump of rough sawn wood and turn it into a finished product.

Its hard enough doing one instrument let alone a production runs of thousands and tens of thousands of instruments.

Not acoustic but electrics, from one of the big guys

..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbU1R4KDymw

Steve

[jeffhigh]

I think many of us enter this field building a copy of an Iconic instrument and thinking we can do it more economically than buying a factory instrument. This generally proves to be untrue, when tooling and materials are added up, even excluding labour time.
Mostly we come to the reallization that there is nothing that special about that particular instrument that warrants slavishly copying every detail.
Most of us are at least aspiring to build a much better instrument than you can find from a factory and with aesthetics that stamp it as our own.

[Dominic]

I like that I can see a guitar and make it if I want one. It pushes me to try different things, flat tops, classicals, archtops, assorted electric guitars. Nothing has been out of range. The right wood will turn up eventually.

But then I saw Ben Bridwell from Band of Horses (Knock Knock) playing an all aluminium guitar that is the most beautiful thing I have ever seen. It is made by Electric Guitar Company. It the first time in years and years I've felt like buying a guitar.

[Allen]

There isn't a single factory guitar or uke that I've ever thought, "Gotta have one of those".

There are builders whom I admire. Plenty of them in fact. But there isn't a single one of them who's work would make me want to plunk down the cash to have one of there instruments. Don't care who it was or what kind of deal I could get on it.

That simply isn't the motivation to what most of us do here. We build because we love it. The challenge, the contemplation, the time of trying to work out design details while lying in bed trying to go to sleep. And the satisfaction that comes by building something with our own hands and having others admire and lust over owning it.

Those forums that I see people list every instrument they have in their signature really get under my skin. Doesn't impress me one little bit. In fact I just turn off to anything they ask or say as I know that they aren't builders, but just wanting to hang out with them.

Hence, this is a builders forum. Not a place for collectors having a wank about their latest purchase of some super rare (put any brand name you like here) or vintage instrument. If you feel the need though, then the "Anything Goes" section is where you'd post.

[Bruce McC]

But then I saw Ben Bridwell from Band of Horses (Knock Knock) playing an all aluminium guitar that is the most beautiful thing I have ever seen.

Can we take it then that neither he nor you are into heavy metal music ?

[DaveW]

Hi Guys
I think jeffhigh actually hit it on the head as far as I was concerned
18 years ago I lusted after a high end classical guitar but couldnt afford it .........Sh!@t I can build one of those .........far cheaper, well as we all know thats not the case,the instrument I built ended up sitting in a guitar stand for the last 18 years ,my son actually thinks its ok and plays it sometimes ,anyway fast forward 18 years and here I am just finishing my second ,so I guess you could say Nos 2 has taken 18 years to build??
getting back to building another guitar is something I cant put to words ,for 18 years Ive thought about it ,as Allen says thinking about the design as we go to sleep at night ,well Ive had nightmares but here I am back at it and its become a bit of an obsession ,but now it doesnt matter as Im doing it with no hassles from others.
I have GAS there is no doubt and to not offend Allen I wont go into that but as a would be luthier there are some amazing builders out there with amazing work and ideas and they are the ones that inspire me,so I thought it did have something to do with building a guitar.
Can anyone say they dont actually admire Martin,maybe the corporate buck has taken hold a bit in the last few decades but companies have to survive ,and they have inspired a generation of luthiers?
therefore my query, damn the amount of money Ive spent on tools I think I could have owned them by now,does the quest for tools ever stop ?but I guess thats another topic isnt it
Dave

[Dave]

Hence, this is a builders forum. Not a place for collectors having a wank about their latest purchase of some super rare (put any brand name you like here) or vintage instrument. If you feel the need though, then the "Anything Goes" section is where you'd post.

There seems to be a lot of masturbation included in threads recently

But have to agree with you Allen that I can't see point of listing under your name all the guitars you own - who cares

Dave

[Dominic]

But then I saw Ben Bridwell from Band of Horses (Knock Knock) playing an all aluminium guitar that is the most beautiful thing I have ever seen.

Can we take it then that neither he nor you are into heavy metal music ?

Bruce, you have me all wrong . Look at the guys cowboy hat. They are more a country band I think. Check out the song to see the guitar better.
Ventures had a Mosrite guitar named after them and the alu guitar is based on that Ventures model shape. Ramones used to play a Mosrite style guitar like this but never heavy metal bands. Not with P90s.
Dom

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7f6tLtaL ... sults_main

[P Bill]

But then I saw Ben Bridwell from Band of Horses (Knock Knock) playing an all aluminium guitar that is the most beautiful thing I have ever seen.

Can we take it then that neither he nor you are into heavy metal music ?

Bruce, you have me all wrong . Look at the guys cowboy hat. They are more a country band I think. Check out the song to see the guitar better.
Ventures had a Mosrite guitar named after them and the alu guitar is based on that Ventures model shape. Ramones used to play a Mosrite style guitar like this but never heavy metal bands. Not with P90s.
Dom

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7f6tLtaL ... sults_main

Ali would make it a Metal Lite band.

[Dominic]

Ali would make it a Metal Lite band.

Yeah, I was too stupid to get Bruce's joke. He is usually so serious its hard to tell

[Paul B]

You blokes have pretty much nailed it.

About 12 years ago when I was toying with the idea of building a guitar, already had Cumpiano's book, but wanted a nice guitar NOW, So I went to a music store and found a nice one. Came back with my $800 a few days later, sat down and had a bit of a play it sounded great (the guitar, not my playing). Then I started to notice the little aesthetic mistakes where the makers had screwed up, and there were a bunch of them, thought to myself that I can do better than that. And I walked out of the store with my money still in my pocket. My first one (an OM) was better than that one in the shop (but still with a mistake or two), tho it took 18 months of my limited spare time. Now I only go back to that shop to buy strings.

These days if I see a nice guitar I'll take it all in, see where I would do things differently (see where things were better than I would have done, and maybe change my way of doing it as a result), and if I like it enough, I might build one, my way (maybe incorporate a few improvements in my method). Brand names don't do a lot for me, and that's not arrogance (I hope) it's just comes from being a guitar maker.

[Nick]

The only "commercial" guitar I own is a OOOm Martin. I didn't buy it (back when I was only making electrics) because of the name on the headstock or any wank factor, it could have the brand name "Dunger" on it for all I care, it was purely because the assistant in the shop (whom I knew) was playing it, I noticed the 'non' master grade top, it had dark wavy streaks in the grain & liked the non conformist look that the other character-less guitars had . He told me to have a play of it, when I sat down to play it it just felt right in my hands. It's not the best sounding OOO I've ever heard but it seemed to fit me & felt right. All the guitars I've made & I still haven't gotten that feel in my hands that that plywood bodied Martin gives me, I've recreated the shape several times on necks but they still don't feel the same, it must be that combination of wood, shape & finish. I don't use it professionally & I very rarely have the time to pull it out of the wardrobe these days but when the mood takes I'll drag it out & play it occasionally.
And unlike Paul, I did the reverse & only went in the damn shop for a set of strings!

[nnickusa]

I got into guitars by always having one around as I've always had friends who wre good players. Still do. Some time ago, I started buying a few and then "upgrading" them as something more interesting came along. I got stuck on Ibanez models from the 70's, mostly because they are pretty good value compared to the name brands made in the same era.

I always had a hankering for an Ibanez Futura, and finally found one. It is still slowly being restored to mostly original spec. Except for my telecaster and a few others that I'm in the process of trying to sell, it'll be my last one bought from others. My telecaster, I flat out love. Feels right, sounds good. The ultimate in simplicity.

After I finish the SG project I've got waiting, I'll likely have a go at building my own Tele, and then see if the 52RI goes or not.

In all honesty, electrics, in my opinion, rely on the electronics for their desireability. A nice neck is needed, but the body can be just about anything, any shape(except those stupid really pointy things), and almost any timber.

So I guess, my point, post ramble, is that the Futura was the only guitar I really wanted.....and I got it.

Hmm could make one and flog it off one day...

[jeffhigh]

In all honesty, electrics, in my opinion, rely on the electronics for their desireability. A nice neck is needed, but the body can be just about anything, any shape(except those stupid really pointy things), and almost any timber.
..

I'm sorry but you are definitely misinformed.
It's the original pickup rings with tooling marks and manufacturers number on the underside that are responsible for the authentic '59 les Paul sound.

[Dominic]

What Jeff said, plus scale length, distribution of wood and type. Light or heavy versions of that wood. Bridge design and material. Bridge to body attachment. String through design. Neck timber, fretboad material and frets. Nut material.

So there are a few things that change the sound of an electric besides just the electronics.
Dom

[Kim]

In all honesty, electrics, in my opinion, rely on the electronics for their desireability. A nice neck is needed, but the body can be just about anything, any shape(except those stupid really pointy things), and almost any timber.
..

I'm sorry but you are definitely misinformed.
It's the original pickup rings with tooling marks and manufacturers number on the underside that are responsible for the authentic '59 les Paul sound.

Disappointed you overlooked the tonal superiority of a 62 Fender's clay dots, thin script spaghetti logo, handwritten DOM, serial and neck width ID letter and 'solid' rosewood fretboard over the latter, inferior sounding, veneered radiused neck iteration Jeff.

Cheers

Kim