What nut files do you use?

[Bob Connor]

We've been using these double sided nut files from Stewmac



but we're not overly happy with them as they leave a V shaped slot.

I've been looking at these ones, also from Stewmac



which seem to be straight edged and have a rounded filing surface.

The other option are the Ibanez set from LMI.



Has anyone used any of these and what are your impressions?

Or are there any other suggestions for a decent set of files?

Cheers

Bob

[Kim]

Bob I cut close to depth with a razor saw, then slot with the relevant stewmac double side file as you show above (Had persistently borrowed a set of the Ibanez double sides that Allied sell with the tapered point so you have less chance gouging the headstock and they were better than the stewmacs ) and then I finish with a set of these.

http://gitarrdelar.se/popup_image.php?pID=260&invis=3

They are "Norman Nut files" from Ebay, about $50 USD a set. Don't know about using them as the primary tool, but for the finishing touch they are fast and clean and if you go a little under-size with the stewmacs, you can use these to gently widen and deepen the slot leaving a nice square shouldered slot with a round bottom rather than a "V" or even worse a flat.

It pays to run a half pencil across your frets to mark the nut before you glue it into place, this way you can get rid of most of the waste with a belt sander while your shaping the nut and it will leave only a little slotting to get the string 2/3 into the nut.

Cheers

Kim

[Dave White]

Bob,

When I first started out building I gulped hard and spent around £80 on a set of 10 HOSCO nut files - I think they are Japanese. They have been a good investment. I got them from Touchstone Tonewoods.

[Allen]

I've got a set of Japanese double sided files. Just 3 files with different with on each side. They come to a tapered point so are a little easier to use than a straight file, but they do have a slight V profile. Haven't used anything else to say if there is a better option. They were pretty expensive so it will be some time before I could justify trying to replace them with something else.

They do cut very quickly.

Here's a link to ones like mine, though I got them for a bit less than this somewhere else.

http://guitarwoods.com.au/catalog/produ ... cts_id=139

[jeffhigh]

I use the stewmac guaged files (your second picture). They work perfectly for me
Can't imagine not having them now, all the stuffing around I used to do with needle files.
Jeff

[Dennis Leahy]

I have the same Norton nut files that Kim has (and I have used them once - woo hoo!)

I have been wondering if a "V" shape is good for a nut slot where the player might want to experiment with different string gauges. I mean, if I cut the slots just *perfectly* for light gauge strings (and make parallel walls with the Norton files), won't medium gauge strings stick a bit?

Too much thinking - not enough lutherie...

Dennis

[jackspira]

I've been using the rounded end files and thinking of getting the V shaped ones. The reason being as Dennis says, they should hold many diferent string gauges equally well. I assume that the string hieght would go up with a fatter string sitting in the V shape, but I'd like to get some to try out how pronounced this is.
The rounded end files are perfect for a string of the same size, but can't take strings that are thicker, and thinner strings are not held as tightly.
Jack

[jeffhigh]

Where possible I go 2 thou bigger than the string guage to give clearance and avoid sticking.
It is not a problem for side to side movement of the string with the round base.
Most Tuning problems are the string bunding in the nut and a vee shape can create a wedging effect
If you do set up for extra lights and then go for mediums you should recut slots.

[Rod True]

I've got the Ibanez files sold by Allied. They leave mostly a rounded bottom in the slot

[James Mc]

This may be a silly question but would using a Dremel with a flexible shaft and carbide micro routers work? These little suckers are amazing and only cost about $7 each. My better half uses this setup to carve and drill holes in all kinds of rock and she has bits as small as .3mm

[ap404]

I have always used a razor saw ( as per Cumpiano & Natelson ) . Any groove radius is possible.

Total outlay is about $6 from your local nerdy hobby shop ( plus a homemade Australian hardwood handle of your choice )

James, I would keep power tools ( even tiny lil' ones ) well away from the nut carving process, it's a bit of a 'feel' job IMHO, and the rotating bit wouldn't speed up the process at all.

[Hesh1956]

I use these even though I have most of the solutions available and I like these fine.



By the way there are many myths in guitar building and one of them, started by Dan Earlywine is that 1/2 the string should be exposed above the nut...... This is BS and it makes no difference if the nut top and the string tops are flush.

Pros repair guys will cut the nut slots to the proper depth and the file the top of the nut with a large file AND the strings on until they are also filing, just slightly, the string tops. It is not unusual for a pro set-up guy to go through three sets of strings doing a perfect set-up.

Be sure to angle the nut file when cutting as around 1/2 the difference between the fret board and the head stock angle (15 degrees). So this means cut your nut slots at around 7-8 degrees.

[Dominic]

By the way there are many myths in guitar building and one of them, started by Dan Earlywine is that 1/2 the string should be exposed above the nut...... This is BS and it makes no difference if the nut top and the string tops are flush.

I have Dan Erlewine's books and find his advise highly detailed and very good. What he recommends is that you remove any material from the nut that is not required to keep the string snuggly in its slot.

This seems highly defenceable.

In this respect he says you should make the high E & B strings a little deeper than half so they stay put while bending. The reason you remove this material is that this way you ensure that you wil not get any chance of string buzz and there is less chance of strings catching in the slot which can lead to tuning problems after tuning and bends. For the same reasons he suggests that your fan out the slot at the back of the nut and that you ramp the slot smoothly up (and that you use a pencil to line the slot with a little graphite to help the string slide) and goes into great detail and he provides very rational and obvious explanations for all his techniques.
I have found Dan's set up book invaluable and have had people comment on the action and playability of my guitars.
I agree there are many myths in guitar building but don't think Dan's techniques fit into that category.
Dom

[Hesh1956]

Dom great - Cumpiano's book is filled with information that he has since disclaimed as well.

My only disagreement with Dan here is that the nut top and string top can't be equal. A well made nut slot will not bind the string - regardless of the depth.

Talk to some repair guys (in person) get to know them and hang out with them and then ask them about this? You will be very surprised what you will hear from many of them.

I hang out with a couple repair guys now, one is one of the best in the US in my opinion and people send him work from all over the place because of his reputation. He is an advocate of nut slots being as deep as the respective string and disagrees with Earlywine.

[Dominic]

Hesh, I am sure these guys are great at what they do but I am looking for a rationale not just a recommendation. I imagine service differentiation in the US is important to remain competitive and can see why the top guys have to disagree with each other. This makes it important to think through these things ourselves or we end up copying other people without knowing why.

But looking at this issue without forming any priors, removing any materal from the nut not needed to keep the string in the slot is a very difficult proposition to argue with. Similar to 'remove any material from your braces not needed to support the top'.
Dom

[kiwigeo]

Might be a good time for a poll. The question would be when you file your nuts do you make depth equal to diameter of string or half diameter of string?

[gratay]

Might be a good time for a poll. The question would be when you file your nuts do you make depth equal to diameter of string or half diameter of string?

I'm in both camps here I guess, because I setup nut slots so that the plain strings are usually full diameter in the slot and the wound strings are usually half diameter in the slots.
Mainly because my thinking is possibly wound strings may have a greater chance of sticking in the slot than a plain string.
My idea of bedding the plain strings the full diameter is so the string doesn't pull out of the nut if the player is a string bender.

don't know about the pro's and cons of the V shape or round bottom files but I have the round bottom Ibanez files.

[Dave White]

Hesh,

Personally I prefer to have the nut slots cut shallow with the string resting above. This may be because I make a lot of bouzouki's and citterns - with the pairs of strings so close, deeper nutslots can lead to weak small pieces of bone between the strings that can break. The same would apply to 12 strings.

Just think of the extra weight of that extra tall nut

[Hesh1956]

Personally I don't want to get into a pissing contest or start splitting hairs over how much time we spend on our nuts, respectively..........

Dom you do your nuts how you will and I will handle my nuts as I wish too - OK?

[Dominic]

Personally, I think we should keep what we do with our nuts to ourselves , or find a forum that is into that kind of thing.

Hesh, I was never any good at pissing contests anyway.

But I am still interested in the why. How about next time you are hanging with your repair buddies you ask them for the low down on their nuts. But watch out for the left hook if they take it the wrong way.
Dom

[Kim]

[Bob Connor]

It shouldn't matter how deep the nut slots are.

Because the the string is circular in shape, only the bottom half of the string will be in contact with the nut regardless of how deep or shallow it is.

Bob

[Craig]

Like Dave,I have a set of HOSCO . I got them from Gerard Gilet a few years ago , and yes they were expensive. To get a nice round bottomed slot , I touch up the slots with oxy. tip cleaning files. There are about 12 different sizes in the set , just the right size for our string guages and only cost a few bucks a set. Kim suggested I carefully epoxy these to the edge of feeler guage blades , so that they don't bend while your filing, and I'll try that next time.

I have the wound strings sitting around 3/4 of their diameter in their slot. I feel better about having the sides of the string supported as well as the bottom. More definition to the start of the speaking length. I slot the unwound ones their full diameter.

Cheers Craig

[Kim]

I mentioned above that I cut slots to around 2/3 on the wound, I did not mention that I do go full depth on the unwound "B" and "E", and almost as deep on the"G" string to ensure they stay put.

My reasoning for not going deeper is along those lines that Mario has suggested many times over at the OLF. A really good stand out guitar is one that combines many of those little things that improve tone all bought together in the one instrument.

By removing what I consider to be excess bone from the top of the nut, I hope to eliminate just that little bit of material which could potentially absorb or dampen just some of the strings vibration and in so doing, may steal tone.

I do not know if this theory has any real substance, but I don't see that adapting it can hurt, especially when one considers that the string itself is only suspended at two points and that the nut is that point farthest from the bridge. To my mind therefore, any loss of energy at the nut what so ever will diminish the strings ability to drive the bridge and top even more so than if the same loss where to occur at the saddle.

Cheers

Kim

[Hesh1956]

Personally, I think we should keep what we do with our nuts to ourselves , or find a forum that is into that kind of thing.

Hesh, I was never any good at pissing contests anyway.

But I am still interested in the why. How about next time you are hanging with your repair buddies you ask them for the low down on their nuts. But watch out for the left hook if they take it the wrong way.
Dom

Hey Dom - deal! And I liked your response to my post too - thanks for being a good guy!

I'll ask the "why" and I will be there this week too.

Something else that I do that might be helpful to others to avoid binding (and I am not speaking of consuming a high fiber diet either...) is I use a segment of the actual string, for the wound strings, as a file of sorts.

I floss the slot with the string being very careful not to take the sharp drop-off off the front of the nut slot. The result is a nut slot that tunes more precisely with less binding initially.