Scarf Joint - Planer Sled

[kiwigeo]

Now and then I like to do one with a handsaw and plane.......just to keep my hand in.

[MBP]

Do you check the cut with a straight edge before gluing?

That is something I always do. Vertical, horizontal and diagnal.

I agree with your comment though - it really doesnt matter HOW it gets done as each person is going to have their own preference, as long as it's done and the joint is perfect.

No matter which way you do it I think it should be checked with a straight edge in all directions x and II and =

And every person has their little tricks for doing things and getting the most accuracy.

Now and then I like to do one with a handsaw and plane.......just to keep my hand in.

This is how I do it even though I have a table saw and 36" and 20" bandsaw that I could do it on I prefer doing it with a japanese saw. At least this way my hand skills will be improved and I dont think you can ever have too much control and hand skill.

[Kim]

Its not so much to with with the blade as it is about the quality of saw, its guides and how it is set up. A well balance band or table saw gives amazing results and that kind of accuracy is most easily achieved from old iron with the weight and structure to deliver vibration free operation, that, a good set of guides, a quality blade suited to the task at hand and a careful set up delivers unbelievable results and I would trust this over the finish that a straight cut jointer head could deliver any day, regardless of how sharp the knives and how slowly feed rate had been. I know that both methods, if done well are good enough, but I still can't help but use a block plane to finish off anyhow simply because of how it sounds and feels and how the finish feels from a finely tuned quality hand plane...unsurpassable.

Cheers

Kim

Its nice to think all the big old machines are great but a lot of them are junk. It doesnt matter how you get there so long as it is all square. If Allan is getting it right with the jointer good on him. What does it matter how it sounds doing it?

You do need to know how to buy an old machine of course. If it was crap when made then nothing much will save it, but if it was a good saw to begin with then there is very little that cannot be restored to be as good as the best today and probably even better with a few mods.

What has the sound of a well tuned hand plane slicing through wood have to do with it??? Well if you don't understand then there's no point in my trying to explain it to you, I'll just say that it's just one of those magically tactile things which many people enjoy when working with wood.

Cheers

Kim

[charangohabsburg]

it's just one of those magically tactile things which many people enjoy when working with wood.

+1

Nothing like the sound of a well tuned handplane.

[MBP]

How romantic Kim.

lovely old cast machines and tactile sounds of the planer.

[Clancy]

I recently described to some of the guys here, how a HNT Gordon Plane & a piece of Desert Oak worked so sweetly together it was like they were having sex!

Does that make me a pervert??

[kiwigeo]

I recently described to some of the guys here, how a HNT Gordon Plane & a piece of Desert Oak worked so sweetly together it was like they were having sex!

Does that make me a pervert??

I dunno but its definitely giving ME a woody

[Tod Gilding]

I recently described to some of the guys here, how a HNT Gordon Plane & a piece of Desert Oak worked so sweetly together it was like they were having sex!

Does that make me a pervert??

Now and then I like to do one with a handsaw and plane.......just to keep my hand in.

I don't have a table saw or a jointer, just the type with no motor, you push it to make it go
Rod.

[Kim]

How romantic Kim.

lovely old cast machines and tactile sounds of the planer.

Romantic Ro? Well possibly. But when it comes to hand planes its a sentiment shared by craftsman around the globe, well at least those who know how to tune and sharpen the tool properly anyhow. Likewise with old iron, next time your near a pro wood shop, poke your head in the door and take a peak over the top of the 4 side thicknesser, wide belt sander or perhaps a CNC router shining in the forefront and chances are you will see the dull shades of a huge old 30" Wadkin or something alike sitting in the shadows which, regardless of how precocious his floor space has become, the owner could not bring themselves part with even after 3 or 4 shop machine upgrades over the years.

There's a two reason for that Ro. The first is simply that for those few occasions when such a saw is required these days, there is nothing on the market that can do the job quite so well.

The second is that it weighs so bloody much that no one had been game to even try to move it...and that is a big part of why it does the first thing so very well.

Cheers

Kim

[Kim]

Allen thank you for your post mate and sharing your ideas, I should have acknowledged that earlier but unfortunately got caught in the detail of debate and forgot my manners so please accept my apology.

That said I should clarify why I have concern with using a power jointer to prep a 'scarf joint'.

Like it or not the fact is that a power jointer will leave scallops in the woods surface no matter how slow the feed rate. This is because many individual cuts are made by a rotating cutter head and therefore ridges are simply unavoidable. Yes it is true these scallops will be reduced in depth by reducing the feed rate. But doing this will not eliminate them, rather it will simply produce more of them to a lesser degree of depth.

In the circumstance of a long grain, side by side lamination, such minute ridges are simply not an issue for most projects. But a scarf glue joint by nature has a low surface area, and the little which it does have also carries a degree of endgrain weakness. When you couple that with the fact that this particular joint, along with that of bridge to top in the case of an acoustic, are the single most stressed in the entire structure of an instrument once under string tension, I feel it is wise to provide every chance possible for that joint to survive the shock of a 'sliding off the amp' or poor baggage handling incident as these things are more likely to happen than not over the life of a guitar.

Most glue types, particularly HHG which I am particularly fond, require a very close 'wood to wood' fit to achieve maximum strength. So to provide that 'every chance possible', it all comes down to maximising bond strength within the limited surface area by ensuring that both surfaces are as flat as possible prior to application of the glue. When it comes down to 'close fitting' wood to wood joinery, nothing will beat the surface produced by a well tuned hand plane in the right hands.

More time to produce the joint? Yes. 'That' much stronger? Who really cares as long as it 'is' stronger.

When all is said and done it is the sum of the little things which we can make time to do which make the outstanding difference between what we produce, and what factories produce with so many CNC routers and so little time.

Cheers

Kim

[Kamusur]

There's a reason we're called Neanderthals Martin

Steve

[auscab]

it's just one of those magically tactile things which many people enjoy when working with wood.

+1

Nothing like the sound of a well tuned handplane.

An interesting comparison with the sound and feel of hand planes is comparing a standard Stanley plane to it's Bedrock cousin.
Say a 4 to a 604. The 604 has a different bed set up for the frog, much more solid with a refined adjustment system.
I don't know if it is doing a better cut but it sounds like it is, and it feels like it is.
It's a perception thing maybe, like when I clean my car I'd swear it feels better to drive,and I get more enjoyment using it.

[demonx]

It's a perception thing maybe, like when I clean my car I'd swear it feels better to drive,and I get more enjoyment using it.

You clean your car? hahaha

I've never washed my HQ ute the whole time I've owned it (several years) and I've got a '57 chevy which I have high pressure hosed about three times and I've never vacuumed inside.

[Kim]

It's a perception thing maybe, like when I clean my car I'd swear it feels better to drive,and I get more enjoyment using it.

You clean your car? hahaha

I've never washed my HQ ute the whole time I've owned it (several years) and I've got a '57 chevy which I have high pressure hosed about three times and I've never vacuumed inside.

Ahhh brother!!! Where have you been

I've improved somewhat these days, but there was a time when if you opened any of the four doors of my old windscreenless XR central QLD early 1980's daily drive, a cascade of empty beer cans and spent cartridges would spill out over your feet....hence no windscreen.

Cheers

Kim

[rocket]

is this this still on topic? i can remember hitting a nail, and still can!! with a heavy object called a claw hammer, then using a nail punch to render the fastener below the surface of the timber for filling, not a two bob to be seen. These days a nail gun will do the job a hundred times faster, Technological advancement is a good thing , makes our lives much easier but the old ways are true and right and valued and gives us, even if it's just the older ones, some perspective from which we can view the modern ways that we do our work.
Rod

[simso]

I've got a '57 chevy which I have high pressure hosed about three times and I've never vacuumed inside.

Whilst on cars, got an old chevy myself, sat in the shed for 3 years now due to lack of time, revved her to hard when showing off 3 years ago and snapped the engine mounts and bent the bonnet, now three years later it sits alone all by itself in the corner of the shed

[simso]

What has the sound of a well tuned hand plane slicing through wood have to do with it??? Well if you don't understand then there's no point in my trying to explain it to you,

Nothing feels as nice or runs as nice than a well setup plane, beats sanding any day, some skills I think are just lost with todays generation.

[demonx]

I've got a '57 chevy which I have high pressure hosed about three times and I've never vacuumed inside.

Whilst on cars, got an old chevy myself, sat in the shed for 3 years now due to lack of time, revved her to hard when showing off 3 years ago and snapped the engine mounts and bent the bonnet, now three years later it sits alone all by itself in the corner of the shed

Nice & not so nice!

What year?

[simso]

It just sits in the shed,

[kiwigeo]

.

[demonx]

It just sits in the shed,

Awesome! I love camaro's! I also like the firebirds that were the twins on these

We should start a new thread just for the car conversation! My last 3 cars have been chevies, a 76 corvette coupe, a 70 corvette convertible and the 57 I've got at the moment. I'll have to dig out some pics!

[Taffy Evans]

Here's my jig for doing the scarf joint on my drop saw.

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IMGP4053 (Small).JPG (38.06 KiB) Viewed 20631 times

[demonx]

Car conversation can be continued here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4564&p=53768#p53768

[kiwigeo]

Here's my jig for doing the scarf joint on my drop saw.

Far too complicated Taff.....

[simso]

Here's my jig for doing the scarf joint on my drop saw.

Simple and effective