SCALE LENGTH

[joe breeden]

THINKING OF BUILDING A BARRATONE WESSIE AND READ THAT THE SCALE LENGTH SHOULD BE 30 INCHES, OR THERE ABOUTS. THIS SEEMS EXTREME TO ME. I WOULD MUCH APPRECIATE ANY INPUT ON THIS SUBJECT. MANY THANKS JOE

[charangohabsburg]

graham caldersmith used a 71 cm scale for the classical baritone guitar: => click <=

[jeffhigh]

I've got one I built to 27"
Deeper body otherwise standard.
30" is a lot of territory to be sliding on IMHO
With correct string selection mine is fine at B
Unless you want to add separate bass strings on a longer scale (a la Andrew Winton) you would be fine with 27"

[Lillian]

graham caldersmith used a 71 cm scale for the classical baritone guitar: => click <=

Nice Markus.


Joe, if you didn't understand Markus' response to you, he was whispering to your shouting. Using all caps is considered shouting and rude on forums. With just having text and no facial expressions, its hard to gauge emotions like sarcasm, but shouting/anger comes across very well. So, unless you are totally pissed at someone, don't shout. And if you are pissed, walk away from the keyboard first.

[joe breeden]

Sorry. I'm a newbie and did not pay attention to the letter size. I beg your pardon and thanks again for any help. Joe

[charangohabsburg]

No problem for me Joe.

In the majority of cases, rather than perceiving "only-upper case texts" as shouting I see them a bit as a minimal effort to communicate well, leaving the problem of understanding almost completely to the others - reading a text written completely in upper case costs me about three to four times the time to read the same text in correct orthography. The temptation to simply skip those upper case forum texts is great, which sometimes could be a pity.

I case you could not read the tiny letters here they are again - in normal size:

Graham Caldersmith used a 71 cm scale for the classical baritone guitar: => click <=

Caldersmith has done some very interesting work on different sized guitars (beyond scale length). As mentioned before, this was on classical guitars.

Cheers,

[joe breeden]

Thanks for all the help. I think 27 inches is what I'll go with. I'm a little gun shy about posting, so I hope this reply is ok.. Thanks again Joe

[charangohabsburg]

Hi Joe,

Don't be (gun) shy about posting. Only those willing to commit mistakes are able to learn.
I hate to commit mistakes
So, congrats to you!

Without ever having built a baritone guitar I dare to say that a 27" scale will give you a soft and easy playable guitar (only 25 to 35 millimetres more than a standard guitar scale), requiring most probably a slightly higher action.

I don't know how a baritone guitar should be tuned, but Graham Caldersmith (as he reported in an article in the magazine American Lutherie, #18 (The Big Red Book of American Lutherie vol.2, p.225), used to tune (still tunes?) his baritone guitars one fifth (seven semitones) below standard: A (55Hz), D, G, C, E, A. Hence my prediction above. In any case you'll have to look for getting the right strings. Standard guitar strings won't do it unless you would extend the scale by 7 (seven!) additional fret spaces! (Or tune your baritone much less than a fifth lower). Well, I don't want to say you ever had thought of using normal guitar strings, I just did not want to leave that issue unmentioned (mentioning again that I am a perfect ignorant regarding baritone guitars).

Cheers,

[jeffhigh]

Hey Markus,
Joe is talking about a "Weiss" or Weissenborn which is played on the lap with a steel bar used to slide on the strings rather than fretting. Generally it has fret markers rather than frets.
It always has high action because you never want the strings to contact the "fretboard"

[kiwigeo]

Pat Methany talks about his Linda Manzer baritone:

http://www.guitar.com/articles/pat-meth ... uiet-night

[charangohabsburg]

Thanks Jeff!

See? It is really hard to understand wrong orthography! At least to me, "WESSIE" is miles (or kilometres) apart from "weissie" or Weissenborn. I thought that "WESSIE" could stand for "western" (opposed to "classical").

Action height will obviously not be a problem at all, scale length maybe will stay a point of interest.

[jeffhigh]

THINKING OF BUILDING A BARRATONE WESSIE AND READ THAT THE SCALE LENGTH SHOULD BE 30 INCHES, OR THERE ABOUTS. THIS SEEMS EXTREME TO ME. I WOULD MUCH APPRECIATE ANY INPUT ON THIS SUBJECT. MANY THANKS JOE

I read this as being a "Baritone Weissie" but maybe I was wrong, maybe Joe is trying for an authentic Australian fish sound.(barramundi= Barra)
Markus Aussies have the habit of attaching IE to a lot of words or names

[charangohabsburg]

Jeffrey, I do not doubt you are right, and maybe even me as a german speaking person (well, almost german speaking ) would have read "weissie" if that "wessie" had been written in lower case, who knows? (not me). At least for me, the confusing thing was not the final "ie", but the missing "i" between the upper case E and S.
I just can't help it: pure upper case is so confusing and illegible!

Cheers,

[charangohabsburg]

Pat Methany talks about his Linda Manzer baritone:

http://www.guitar.com/articles/pat-meth ... uiet-night

Oh, thank you Martin!

I'm reading there, that Pat Metheny did not know what to do with his baritone guitar!
Seems that he finally found out.

Most interesting details:

Guitar.com: And what gauge would you be using for this application?

Pat Metheny: *** to *** [the *** - that's me, Markus: ]

Guitar.com: What is the scale on the Bari?

Pat Metheny: *** [again me. ] but you can check that on her website as well.

Yes, read that interview! (not just for knowing the scale and string gauge used by Linda Manzer).

Interviewed people are like those automats where you can buy cans of soda, beer, or cigarettes, chewing gum, etc.: throw in a coin and the automat a) just will swallow your coin without giving you what you wanted to buy, b) hand you out what you selected, or c) hand you out what you selected plus return not only your coin but also all the cash and merchandise the automat was hosting in its stomach! Pat Metheny certainly resembles the c) - automat

[joe breeden]

I'm sorry for the confusion that I have caused. I have put tape over my "caps lock" key and will try not to abbreviate again. I am so impressed with the knowledge and skills of all the members. I just want everyone to know that I really appreciate and value your opinions and help. I will be off line for a week. Will check in when I get back. Thanks to all. Joe P.S. I was asking about a baritone weissenborn

[Nick]

Just to add to your confusion Markus, I coloquially call them "Weezy's" not because of the tone they produce but just an abstraction of the first part of the real word. English is a real bastard of a language & I always commend people for whom it's a second or third language, who manage to use it properly, people who have spoken it all their life still manage to get it wrong & can & often do, mangle it in quite imaginative ways.
Sorry, a little off topic there..........we now return you to normal programming.

[Lillian]

Good on you Joe for continuing to drive on despite what we've tossed into this thread. We don't always muddy up a thread, but it does happen. It's rarely a reflection on the original poster or the question as much as it is the nature of the forum to devolve every once in a while.

You will find a lot of great information here, but sometimes you have to be patient and wait for the lads to get it all out of their system.

[kiwigeo]

You will find a lot of great information here, but sometimes you have to be patient and wait for the lads to get it all out of their system.

Nick and Mark started it....

[ozziebluesman]

Hello Joe,

I've built a few standard Weissenborn copies and have pondered a Barritone Weissenborn at some stage. A friend of mine had a Barritone Weissenborn copy built by Paddy Burgin in New Zealand. It has a 27.4" scale, all Mahogany and the body and depth of the instrument are about 20% larger all round than a standard size weissenborn.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krdePRYdKNI

I'm with Jeff and think the 27 inch scale along with the right string guage selection is the way to go. You could go a bit deeper as well but I don't think it makes much difference to tone however it might enhance the bass more in an instrument that is tuned very low in pitch. I have built a few with different depths and the standard size sounds the best IMO.

Hope this helps

Cheers

Alan

[jeffhigh]

Besides the ergonomic reasons, the other reson I went with 27" is that with a bit of luck and planning, you can do it with a standard size weissenborn set rather than going to the difficulty of having one custom cut.
I managed to get the back to work due to the curve of the headblock, the sides worked with a 1" wide tail wedge and set back about 10mm from the fretboard end, and the top needed an extension but the joint was hidden by the purfling which met the fretboard in this area.

[charangohabsburg]

[...] I have put tape over my "caps lock" key [...]

[...] and will try not to abbreviate again. [...]

Don't overdo it with not abbreviating!
Not interpreting well the abbreviation was completely my fault, the caps lock just helped a bit for getting it misunderstood.

Sorry for having derailed your thread!
Back to the "WeEzYbOrNs".