New Luthier Tips du Jour video - Tonewood

[Robbie O'Brien]

Here is something to help start the new year off right.
The newest Luthier Tips du Jour instructional video is on Youtube. The topic is Tonewood. Subtitles are available in both English and Portuguese and you can translate them into any other language by using the CC option on Youtube.
As always, comments and discussion are welcome.
Enjoy!


youtu.be/

[Nick]

As always Robbie, another useful resource for people. When I saw the title I thought it was such a large topic that how could you possibly cover it in a seven minute video!!? But you've synopsised it excellently for anybody just starting out or perhaps still a little unsure when purchasing tonewood.

[Robbie O'Brien]

Thanks,
Glad you enjoyed it.

[Dominic]

Thanks Robbie. Good tips for beginners. Stick with the big suppliers to start out and you'll get good quality wood and can focus on building. And use their advice services. LMI has a nice range and the less often used stuff can be great value and have densities and sound characteristics very similar to more expensive woods. For instance, zebra wood is said to sound like IRW but cost around half and is very exotic looking.
Cheers
Dom

[Trevor Gore]

For another perspective, try this:

http://scitation.aip.org/getpdf/servlet ... rog=normal

I'll defy anyone to accurately grade tonewoods by stiffness/density (E/ρ) by examining rough sawn lumber!

[Phil]

OK. Good info folks. But....

A few comments about all these exotic tonewoods from an ameteur luthier of 40 years experience (Average 3 instruments a year)

1. I just bought some (new to me) exotic stuff from LMI. Yes I'll name names. The first pair of sides buckled and split.
Yes, I learned from the experience, but the second set worked perfectly. It's not the wood, it was me. I needed to learn how to work this wood. But it's not cheap learning.

2. Same wood. I tested my usual finish on scraps, just to be sure. Seven tries before I found a good finishing technique.

3. I have had the same problems over the years with other exotic woods, and usually I have found a way to work with each.
It's a hard won learning experience. Glues, finishes, bending, differ every time. But I prevailed. When time came to reorder, I could not get hold of the same wood again as the source had dried up.

4. Over the years, I have found Maple and Mahogany to be in good supply and predictable to work, perhaps they are the best for the occasional luthier???

What I am saying in a very roundabout manner are two things.

First. LMI and others should grade their woods as to their suitability according to the experience of the luthier. Some woods might give a great sound but are not suitable for people such as I.

Second. Let the suppliers make the luthiers be fully aware of the continuance of supply of these exotic woods.

Phil.

[JJ model]

I would like to request if anybody who has wood that are they think are not good enough for guitar to be send to me.
I don't mind working on them to make into nice instruments so that we don't have to always look for the best or soon we'll have nothing left that is good enough . btw most of my top wood have cardboard tap tone

[kiwigeo]

I would like to request if anybody who has wood that are they think are not good enough for guitar to be send to me.
I don't mind working on them to make into nice instruments so that we don't have to always look for the best or soon we'll have nothing left that is good enough . btw most of my top wood have cardboard tap tone

I've got some Brazilian RW..lovely wood to look at at but I just dont like the smell.

[Dominic]

Phil, the woods traditionally used in guitars were not arrived at by trying every single wood out there first. It was what was acceptable and available that became defacto guitar woods. As such, they do not represent the perfect bendable or glueable wood. There is no 'normal' by which to judge other woods.

Plus, Australia has not had the ease of access to BRW for instance as the US, so perhaps we are more used to using different woods. And as the world continues to chew through our resources, we are going to have to get used to using more non-traditional woods.

As such, you are correct, knowing your wood is certainly important and LMI more than any other supplier gives info on ease of bending, gluing and working, if its hard on tools etc. I have often read comments such as, this is the last of this type of wood we will get. Once stocks gone they are gone. Or we have good suppliers of this wood and expect to be able to carry good stocks for the foreseeable future.
Theres plenty of other sources of info about guitars, its probably easier than ever to successfully use non-traditional woods these days.

Cheers
Dom

[Kim]

On the topic of alternate wood in guitar building, another consideration is that our methodologies have changed.

Over the last decade, many builders have adopted the use of solid bending forms and silicone heat blankets with supportive metal slats. This change in process has been a real game changer for the tonewood supply industry because much of the wood once thought too risky to take to the pipe because it is flat sawn or presents too much runout, has become usable...not always the best option of course, but there are many nice guitars out there now that stand as testament to the shift in the bar of what is, and what is not acceptable to build with.

I would go so far as to suggest that this shift in measure has been so great and recent in terms of tradition that we as a collective are still very much exploring all the new possibilities, and with so much 'new' wood being introduced into the mix to replace that which had once been the norm, we will have quite a way to go before a new set of favourites could ever be established and the real truth is with so many options now available from all over the globe, that is unlikely to ever happen again until well down the track when the agreement will be upon which of the composites is best.

Cheers

Kim

[Kamusur]

Great thread topic and surely no other stirs em up like this un everyone and the best part is that it has not degenerated like it could have.
Hey Martin I got some wood and the stench is quite repulsive more of the manure that fertilised the tree rather than the smell of the blossoms.

Steve

[MBP]

I would like to request if anybody who has wood that are they think are not good enough for guitar to be send to me.
I don't mind working on them to make into nice instruments so that we don't have to always look for the best or soon we'll have nothing left that is good enough . btw most of my top wood have cardboard tap tone

haha. When people starting taping guitars instead of playing them then maybe tap tone will be so important. No wood I have ever taped has sounded like a guitar.

Guitars are subjective, not science. I can understand trying to get a consistency but every guitar and player is so different more time should be spent building than calculations.

[charangohabsburg]

Hey Martin I got some wood and the stench is quite repulsive more of the manure that fertilised the tree rather than the smell of the blossoms.

Zebrano?

[Dominic]

You know, I've got a buch of zenbrano and it smells fine to me, a bit like farm straw. But some strippy Qld Walnut I have is the worst smelling wood I have, decidedly human number twos on a hot day. Been too scared to use it yet but it does look nice.

Dom

[charangohabsburg]

My zebrano smells like a horse. Of course, there are worse smelling things in the world than horses.

But some strippy Qld Walnut [...]. Been too scared to use it yet

[jeffhigh]

I'm with you on the QLD Walnut Dom.
I had a piece that I cut up for uke B& sides, destroying a bandsaw blade in the process.
After a few days it still stunk so badly that I threw it out, and I never do that i'm such a hoarder.
So-- Hard on cutting tools and stinks I'll give it a miss

[JJ model]

so if any wood thats stinks and tap like wet cardboard can you still term them as tonewood?

[rocket]

Talking about timber being hard on tools i've just jointed a back set for an electric arched semi hollow body.
Recently set myself up with, new grinder, diamond lapstone, newly tuned No6 hand plane, had those irons so damned sharp it was scary, and my i add just here that after working with timber all my life i hadn't known how to really sharpen a tool until i got involved in this lutherie caper, i've always been proud of my tools and how sharp i keep them but i had a lot to learn. Anyways,, back to the very sharp plane irons,, I was jointing some Wenge ,,, all i can say is the stuff is hard shit, one or two strokes of the super sharp hand plane and it was back to the diamond stone, got the job done but needed a beer after that one
Cheers,,,

Rod.

[Kim]

I wonder if the strength of odour increases with the age of the tree??

I just ask because I have machined a mountain of jarrah in my time. The light coloured wood I had assumed was from younger trees, the really light coloured stuff from regrowth and the dark chocolate stuff from true old growth..it seems to that way to me anyhow as I have cut and split fence posts in my time too and this work is done in regrowth areas where you remove excess suckers from old stumps. Most all of that wood is blood red to salmon pink, but old stump wood can be so dark it is near black...but here's the thing, the really old 'dark' stuff when pushed over a planer often reminds me of that smell you get when you run over a white dogs egg with the victor.. and the darker the wood, the more strong the odour to the point where there would be little difference between machining it, and doing a line of dried dog shit....not that I have ever done that of course, a man needs some borders.

Cheers

Kim

[Kamusur]

Kim thats so funny but i reckon your on the money
Thats true Markus bout horses as well.
And JJ i reckon the new term for smelly wood that taps like cardboard should be "Turdwood".

Steve