Right hand

[Peter Young]

Hello all ..

Long time since I posted anything .... no excuse other than being a ludite with IT. However, the inimitable forum member John Maddison has tuned me in. So ... here we go.

I made a classical guitar and several players played it one afternoon.

Macrocarpa with cedar top from Tim Spittle

Classical.jpg (86.79 KiB) Viewed 13450 times

They all had a different attack. One made it sing, one made it rattle, one was lost, one moved his right hand up and down and found the "sweet spot". All good players.

Question is .... if you are commissioned to build a guitar (instrument) for someone, how do you evaluate the right hand or attack and relate it to the build. In other words hard or soft strummers and / or hard or soft pickers and styles of music ???

Cheers and thanks Peter

[Kim]

Hey Pete, great to see a post from you

To this stage I have avoided crowding out the limited grey matter with any sort of good understanding of classical guitars..My supposition is, in the main with a completed guitar, I would imagine that you would address the variation of attack by adjusting the action and grade of string tension. Higher and greater for harder attack?

Anyhow the main point of my post is to welcome you to the ANZLF and to congratulate you on building such a wonderful looking guitar...stick around mate...and don't be so bloody stingy with your images...we 'demand' more!.

Must also add that the top on that guitar has so much silk it should be illegal...were'd ya get it?? (EDIT: Sorry Pete, have just noticed that your image note advises that this amazing cedar top has come from our very own Tim Spittle....must give him a call, its been too long)

Will need to catch up again one day with the great bunch in the greater southern.

Cheers

Kim

[Allen]

Hey Pete, great to see you post that beauty.

I've not built a classical but with commissions on ukes I get all kinds of requests or "requirements" as per what they expect out of the instrument they hope to receive.

Besides the obvious ones of "what wood do you want etc. I send them a bit of a questionnaire about their playing preference to help me formulate what I'll be up against.

It goes like this.

• Width of nut
  String spacing at saddle
  Preference of strings (Brand, hard, soft etc)
  Flat or radius on the fret board
  Neck shape, ie V....C....D etc.
  If they have a favorite instrument that they would like me to replcate some of the neck characteristics I get them to measure the overall thickness of the neck including fret board at the 1st and again at the 10th fret
  Playing style ...Finger or strumming, and how much they like to really dig in.
  Do they use the entire fret board or just the first 5 frets

From that feedback I build to the agreed specs, then the rest is in the setup. I've been setting them up lower and lower with just the barest of hair space clearance on the first fret, then use 0.075" for ultra low action, 0.080" for low, 0.090" as medium and 0.100" for high. All of the preceding is with medium tension or high tension strings. I haven't managed to find a set of low tension strings I like the sound of, nor could I manage to get them to play without buzzing like mad with anything other than what I would call way too high action.

[Peter Young]

...and don't be so bloody stingy with your images...we 'demand' more!.

Thanks Kim and Allen .... will post some more guitar pics soon, but in the mean time ..... I built a small guitar based on a Tacoma Papoose.

Red spruce top ... silky oak back and sides

Papoose front.jpg (75.69 KiB) Viewed 13427 times

Scale length 19" ... tuned to A (equals full size with capo on 5th fret) Baritone uke body shape and size.

regards Pete

[seeaxe]

Peter, welcome

Can we see that beauty out of its case please??
Dave Olds built a lovely macrocapa guitar a while ago, that looks as good.

Did the bridge come from Tim too? I have been thinking about ordering a couple of those - your picture just made my mind up.

Lovely guitar.

Cheers
Richard

[woodrat]

Peter...It looks a very elegant guitar indeed I really like the bridge...it is different from the bog standard rosewood that most use (myself included) ...it is the the thing that I noticed first... Lurvley!

John

[woodrat]

BTW....have you used a satin finish on your guitar or is it a trick of the light? If it is satin what did you put on it, Thanks.

John

[charangohabsburg]

Beautiful guitars!
Regarding the guitar in the first picture I agree with Kim: it is one of those MASE - Guitars! (Maximum Amount of Silk Exceeded). And the figured bridge really takes the bisquit!
The combination of this super silky top and the chosen bridge wood is a real eye-catcher!

The small one has that kind of soundholes I really like but have cause me quite a bit trouble because I had pushed it to the brink.

Question is .... if you are commissioned to build a guitar (instrument) for someone, how do you evaluate the right hand or attack and relate it to the build.

I can not say how I "do" this because I have never done it, I can only imagine how I would do it. I think it would be ideal to let the customer play several different guitars and hear his comments about them - and then play those guitars oneself too to get an idea what he means. But of course this is not always possible, and sometimes a questionnaire as Nick suggests must do it.

Further I think (believe to know) that the action is not the only thing to think about when it comes to design or adjust a guitar to a certain picking and strumming stile. For example, I own a classical and a flamenco guitar (did not build them myself) which have the exactly same action (adjusted by me, though). The flamenco guitar seems nearly to explode when I play it with moderate effort, but there it already reaches it's limit. If I try to play it harder, even before starting to buzz too much it won't sound any louder. The classical instead costs me more effort to play with a reasonable loudness, but then I can push it as far as I want and am not able to push it to it's limits. OK, I have to admit that my performance is poor, but still, the difference between the two guitars is striking. I think that top- and back-stiffness have a lot to do with this difference. The flamenco guitar weighs 1355 grams, the classical 1725 grams, top- and back-thicknesses vary a lot, the flamenco guitar has a very light fan bracing with moderate top doming and the classical guitar has a different, stiffer "fan brace framework" with few top doming. I feel that a stiffer top (and in a lesser degree also a stiffer back) leads to a guitar that is "harder" to play, and that feels like a guitar with a higher action that it actually has (it is harder to make it buzz).

As I indicated before I am not a builder, and these are only my observations I made on guitars others than I have built. I have passed the last 10 years doing occasionally some (actually too many) repairs and only have started with some builds two years ago. So please take in account that my experience is limited to just this.

[Allen]

Very good points Markus.

I've built some that no matter how hard you drive them they don't break up (the lattice braced ukes come to mind) but they get there very quickly. Rather difficult to play them softly. Those tops are exceedingly light but stiff with the sound just jumping out.

Others with more conventional bracing are comparatively heavy compared to the lattice braced tops, and perhaps not as stiff, but can be played with a much more delicate style to bring out a different character to the sound. In most cases it's possible to drive these to the point where you get rattles, but that would be at the extreme end.

[Peter Young]

Hello again

Thanks to all for the comments, thoughts and greetings.

John ... the finish is Mirror tone 3220 30% gloss. My mate and mentor Maurice applied the finish so I can not claim that aspect of the build.
Richard ... the bridge and head stock came from an offcut from Tim. I was after a theme and he found (who knows how) a finger board match.

These are some more photos (as requested) out of the box.

Classical good view.jpg (54.74 KiB) Viewed 13205 times

Classical bridge.jpg (129.65 KiB) Viewed 13205 times

Classical concept.jpg (105.25 KiB) Viewed 13205 times

classical bracing.jpg (78.82 KiB) Viewed 13205 times

Thanks again everyone for your thoughts and greetings.

Regards Peter

[Nick]

No pictures of the matching headstock? but that bridge gives me goosebumps everytime I see it Rest of it's not too shabby either Nice job Peter.

[Allen]

Your work is always inspiring Pete. You should show it off more often. I really like that bracing pattern. May use something like that on a Baritone Uke.

[John Maddison]

Maybe a Gallery Thread next, Pete? ... now that you're on a roll with posting to the Forum

[Kim]

I agree, this one should go straight to the pool room.

Cheers

Kim

[Peter Young]

I must confess ...... it has been ....

.... there is a problem before this one goes anywhere.

edited back.jpg (64.16 KiB) Viewed 13110 times

This happened early in the build and I did not notice until the final fitting up. Initially it was the end. However, I have worked out a fix. Probably should have done it straight away but just had to string up and hear it. Got two projects to finish off then I will attend and post the end results.
as penance ... I will post something in the gallery

Regards Peter

[charangohabsburg]

That looks like a feature. Just charge a bit more and things will be OK.