First day of spring

[tim mullin]

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Originally Posted on: Wed Sep 01, 2010

After a cold, wet winter, it was very nice to see the weather clear on this, the first day of spring. The rain stopped, the sun came out, and the humidity went down -- perfect conditions to spray lacquer. And that's exactly what I did. Great to finally see what the wood will look like under lacquer ...

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[Bob Connor]

Looks great Tim.

Unfortunately the first day of spring in Geelong was extremely inclement. ie it's been pissing down most of the day.

Can't complain though it's been dry as all get out for years here.

[kiwigeo]

Raining in Adelaide...treated it as a spring day regardless and dragged on the lycra and went for a burn on the bike

[Puff]

Great weather in the north too but with the news that the govt has just Ned Kellyed us (2) out of nigh on a grand to bail out another bunch that have been living high on the hog on promises/carrots and incompetence with other people's money we reckon we deserved it - the weather that is.

[Ronald_Handmade]

Wow - that's looking great! What timber is that on the back/sides?

[kiwigeo]

Looks suspiciously like Brazilian Rosewood.

[tim mullin]

Wow - that's looking great! What timber is that on the back/sides?

Looks suspiciously like Brazilian Rosewood.

Only on a luthiers' forum could a celebration of spring become a "What's this wood?" thread! Nope, it's not Brazilian (or even from South America).

[Nick]

Ziricote?
Spring down in Canterbury was lovely too Tim, warmish and the big yella was up in the sky, shining, pity I could only look at it through the window at work here .

[tim mullin]

OK, some hints:
1. This wood is sold by several lutherie supply houses, but virtually ALL of them list the scientific name incorrectly (as do many guitar makers who've used it)!!
2. In its native country, the wood is traded as "Kayu malam", a term that includes many species of the same genus, ranging markedly in colour, distinctiveness of heartwood/sapwood, hardness, etc. -- no doubt this explains why the wood sold by lutherie houses varies tremendously in both colour and figure, and why someone created their own fanciful Latin and English common name for it!

That help?

[Clancy]

Well I thought either monkey pod, or even african blackwood, but your clues have me reasoning rather than guessing, so..
If I remember my bahasa right then malam means 'black' and kaya means 'rich' or 'alot of' so kaya malam would translate something like 'very black'.
So, Malaysian/Indonesian Blackwood??

[J.F. Custom]

Spring??? Where? When? !!

Nup. Rain all day yesterday. I think it has rained for the last three months non-stop here... Well, I could easily count sunny days on two hands in that period anyhow. Not good weather for us luthiers *sigh*. But, as Bob alluded, years previously have been dry so we can't have it both ways. There are dams full up here - that didn't even know they were dams!!

As for the timber (and a nice looking guitar btw) my guess from the initial pictures not your subsequent hints would have been one of the 'Macassar Ebony's'. That's what it looks like to me.

Jeremy.

[DarwinStrings]

Nice looking guitar Tim and Baa humbug to spring as it is just getting more and more hot humid up here.

Is it D. Ridleyi? (I know this one as the species is my sons name). I notice LMI have the species of their Malaysian blackwood as D. Ebonasea when Ebenacea is the family.

Jim

[kiwigeo]

After a cold, wet winter.....

The Wellington winter was a bit milder than usual this year??

[Nick]

After a cold, wet winter.....

The Wellington winter was a bit milder than usual this year??

Well he didn't mention wind so I guess it must have been Razz .

[tim mullin]

Craig is right on the money. While timber traders in Malaysia refer to it as "Kayu malam", the lutherie suppliers translate it for us anglophones as "Malaysian blackwood". Where zoot suppliers go too far (IMHO) is when they declare it as having the scientific name: Diospyros ebonasea. In fact, no such taxnomic designation has been made -- it is totally fictitious! (Although the Diospyros are all members of the family Ebenacae, which I guess is their inspiration for the name).

As many ebonies from Malaysia can be traded as "Kayu malam", it is extremely difficult to identify this wood to the species level, so that the correct scientific designation is "Diospyros spp." It explains to some degree why builders have reported so much variation in the figure and colours of the wood, as there are many species to choose from. Personally, I'd prefer to dispense with the fiction and use the industry-accepted collective term of "Kayu malam".

Macassar ebony (Diospyros celebica) is certainly a close cousin, but its distribution is said to be limited to the Indonesian island of Sulawesi (formely known as Celebes). Known for its striped figure, the timber is shipped out of the port of Makassar.

And the weather here has turned to absolute crap -- Spring in Wellington was very short!

[Lillian]

Marblewood?

[DarwinStrings]

It seems my guess, D. Ridleyi, doesn't even come from Malaysia.

If you are buying Malaysian blackwood or if you prefer, Kayu malam you may be buying one of these species, that is if it actually comes out of Malaysia I guess.... Diospyros suluensis, D. elmeri, D. suluensis, D. macrophylla, D. discocalyx, D. subtruncata, D. pilosanthera, D. durionoides, D. borneensis, D.pendula, D. elmeri, D. elliptifolia, D. currani and D. perfida, these are listed as "Kayu malam" by the Sabah Forestry Department. You could also be buying something from Indonesia and I reckon they probably have a long list of their own.

With Macassar ebony there are also others that get in under that name other than D. celebica (which looks like the most common one), they include D. marmorata, D. discolor, D. inclusa and D. kurzii.

I suppose you never know exactly what you are getting when you buy wood unless you know the tree it came from and I guess it don't matter much as long as you like the wood and it does what you want it to do.

Jim

Botanic names ROCK!!!

[tim mullin]

One reason I didn't get into a list (partial or otherwise) of what species might be included in the Kayu malam timber class, is that taxonomic lists are constantly changing and under dispute, particularly those managed by taxonomists in Asia. There is a rather marked difference between the Western and Asian school of taxonomy, so that Asians recognise a LOT more species, whereas Western taxonomists will consider them to be consistent with the normal variation among freely hybridising individuals of the same species. For example, Western taxonomists generally recognise 29 species of poplar/aspen (Populus spp.), but the Asian school argues there's more like 100, with over 40 of them indigenous to China. (I think I might go don my flame suit now).

My major point was that Diospyros ebonasea, as zoot dealers like to designate what they market as Malaysian blackwood, doesn't exist on ANY taxonomic classification -- Western, Asian or otherwise.

Meanwhile, I don't really know what my latest guitar is made from, and you're perfectly right in suspecting that it might even be from elsewhere in the region. I think the client will like it though, as he chose it personally from Allied's website.

And now the rain is really hammering us in Wellington, wind, cold, hail, you name it -- should never have celebrated the first day of Spring!!

[DarwinStrings]

My major point was that Diospyros ebonasea, as zoot dealers like to designate what they market as Malaysian blackwood, doesn't exist on ANY taxonomic classification -- Western, Asian or otherwise.

Yep I agree as I stated (not in so many words) in my first post in this thread, "spp" would be much better than a misspelling of the family name used for the species (though maybe I am too anal retentive about it all)

The reason I made the partial list is cause I love this stuff, I have been trying to get out at least once every two weeks with my botany books to get a grip on some of the stuff around me.

I particularly liked Diospyros discocalyx, so named because the sepals are shaped like little mirror balls.

We, as always are being hammered by the sun, therein lies a dilemma trees are also good for shade as well as wood.

Jim

[Ronald_Handmade]

So... I guess the answer to my original question would be "Um... We don't really know, exactly. It's some kind of hardwood which is probably from somewhere in South-East Asia - but it's real pretty..."

[DarwinStrings]

Ha . The answer would be "Malaysian blackwood" as sold by Allied Luthiers. If you want a more specific answer then take your pick of one of the above listed species or insert one of your own but it is definitely not "Diospyros ebonasea"

Jim

[tim mullin]

So... I guess the answer to my original question would be "Um... We don't really know, exactly. It's some kind of hardwood which is probably from somewhere in South-East Asia - but it's real pretty..."

Ahh ... yes.
Sorry for the rant, but being a tree biologist by training and profession, I'm accustomed to being on a "first-name basis" with my trees. Kind of annoying, if not down right embarrassing, not to be able to say exactly what I'm using to build a guitar -- particularly where the wood is so striking. C'est la vie!

[kiwigeo]

Bucketting down here in Adelaide. Ive just been up on the roof with a bldi sealant gun plugging up holes left in the roof by the w****er who fitted my new wood fire. The stupid b*****d had drilled some hole in one sheet of iron for some unknown reason and not bothered to plug them up with sealant.

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