Whittles wax finish

[vandenboom]

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"Originally Posted on:Tue Jun 08, 2010


I have started on an OM and customer wants an oil finish - definitely does NOT want solvent based lacquer - for eco friendly reasons. Can't argue with the customer!!
I have used Tru Oil once - certainly easy to apply and looks ok but not durable, very little build and I found it hard to repair after getting some small scratches. So I don't think I want to use that again.

I was asking Gerard Gilet at the recent Melb Guitar Makers festival about his experience & preferences with oil finishes and he spoke well of Whittle's hard wax product, at least for necks.

I had a search on the forum and found one use of it - 2 year old post....
viewtopic.php?t=1132&highlight=whittle+wax

So interested to know if anyone else has had experience with it since. If so, would you only use it on a neck, or on all surfaces? Is it easy to repair (Whittle's web site says it is). Is there a particular product suited to guitars?

I will call Whittle's on Wed to see what they have to say.
http://www.whittlewaxes.com.au/Home/Home.asp

Thanks. Frank.

[John Maddison]

Hi Frank

The product is produced by a Danish company called PNZ; Whittle Waxes in Victoria import then re-brand it with their own logo.

I agree with everything you've said about Tru-Oil ... a nice shiny finish but all too delicate. I've very recently used Whittle Wax's Hard Wax Oil on a Koa concert ukulele for my son to take to the Cairns festival in a few weeks time. The oil aint cheap ... upwards of approximately $50-60 a litre, but when you compare that to the price of Tru-Oil (I paid about $20 for a 240ml bottle from a gun shop) then it's about on par.

I didn't pore fill but will definitely do so next time. I sanded to 320grit and applied a diluted (50/50 with thinners) wash coat and allowed to dry overnight (8 hours is recommended), then applied subsequent coats of undiluted oil (it's particularly 'gooey'). I wiped off any excess after the recommended 10 minutes and then vigorously rubbed in any remaining surface oil and then left it to harden off for a day between coats.

Be sure to completely remove even the minutest of scratches prior to applying the first wash coat; once the oil impregnates the wood it is very difficult to sand out any minor dings or scratches - being a novice at this finishing game I found the sandpaper immediately clogged up.

Mike Connor in that post you've listed above said he applied 2 coats, and mentioned that 3 would have been better. I'd have to agree ... in fact, I went as far as 5 coats, lightly rubbing between coats with 0000 steel wool, with a final polish using F&W Carnauba Wax and only ended up with a fairly dull (compared to Tru-Oil) satin-type lustre, which is what the product specs say anyway, duh! Maybe a rub with fine micromesh between coats might be worth a go next time to get a higher sheen. And I also noticed a slight grain lift in the Koa after the initial wash coat, though the instructions on the can don't mention sanding in between coats.

Another tip is to use disposable rubber gloves as the Hard Wax Oil sticks to your rag/fingers like glue, and only apply the oil to small areas as you need plenty of elbow grease to rub before it starts to quickly get very tacky. The label on the can says "Harmless after drying" so to be on the safe side I was cautious about handling the stuff in liquid form. The instructions also say to use in a well ventilated area. I'd also recommend you do a few trial runs on some off-cut pieces of wood from the instrument you're building, just to get the hang of hand application, as the oil is not very forgiving - time is of the essence when you're using it.

I'm not entirely happy with this first attempt but it has potential, and I've learnt an awful lot about what not to do. At least Sam's happy with his new uke!

Am not aware of any of the PNZ products that are specifically tailored for lutherie, but a trawl through their website might turn up something more suitable than the Hard Wax Oil.

Let us know how you get on. Cheers!
_________________
John

Last edited by John FM on Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:13 pm; edited 1 time in total

[Allen]

I've used it a fair bit Frank, and most of the uke class last year used it on their instruments.

I was the one who put Gerard Gilet onto the hard wax. He was at the markets in Cairns last year and saw a few of my ukes with it, and liked the way it looked and felt.

I pore fill with epoxy, but that's not all that enviro friendly for this customer you have. So you'll want to do something else I imagine.You have to keep in mind that their is absolutely NO build to this product that you could level out like you would with lacquer. So prep must be impeccable.

I really like the feel of it on hard wood, but it doesn't give you much protection to a softwood top. I suppose if you liken it the a very delicate French Polish then you are going to have an idea what sort of care is going to be required on spruce or cedar.

I ended up putting 5 coats on all the instruments that I've applied it to. And it's easy to come back again in a few months or more and add another coat. A little goes a very long way.

And Johns tip about the gloves is a good one. It's very sticky when it starts to dry, and almost impossible to wash off your hands.

Also, I have the Hard Wax, and PNZ oil. They both seem to do a good job.

[John Maddison]

Allen wrote:
I pore fill with epoxy, but that's not all that enviro friendly for this customer ... so you'll want to do something else

Frank - it might be worth re-visiting this forum's 'eggsellent' Pore Filling with Egg White tutorial.

[John Maddison]

Allen wrote:
I ended up putting 5 coats on ...

Allen - did you micromesh or rub with very fine sandpaper/steel wool between coats, and how long did you leave to dry before applying the next coat? One would think that because these oils are primarily for use on wooden or tiled flooring that it must be fairly durable to be able to withstand foot traffic ... your thoughts??

[Kim]

John FM wrote:
One would think that because these oils are primarily for use on wooden or tiled flooring that it must be fairly durable to be able to withstand foot traffic ... your thoughts??

Ah Ha!! Uke moccasins!!

[Allen]

I put on 2 coats a day, and hit them first with some coarse cloth to buff them up, then after 2 coats I hit them with a 1000 grit sponge pad that was pretty worn out. We go through heaps of them at work, and the worn ones come home with me.

The finish is great on hard woods, and I don't have any issue with it at all in that application. It's on the soft woods that it's a bit of an issue as compared to lacquer. The lacquer gives a nice hard finish, that does give some reasonably good protection to the very soft substrate, whereas the Wittle Wax, and other similar products don't have the film build so while the surface is protected from the elements so to speak, it will still dent and scratch fairly easy if care is not taken.

[vandenboom]

I haven't done anything in the way of mixing finishes on the one guitar. I know that oiling a neck and lacquering the body is not uncommon. Would it be dumb to use the wax on everthing bar the spruce top, and to lacquer that?

I also have another question while I'm at it. A dreadnought I built last year is now my regular playing axe. I finished it with nitro, sprayed over zpoxy. I am contemplating sanding back the neck and trying the Whittle's wax on it. Is there any reason why the wax shouldn't adhere to this neck?

Frank

[Allen]

If you sand the lacquer back to bare wood, there isn't any reason that it wouldn't work. And in fact, I prefer the feel of the wax on the neck compared to the lacquer. It also has a very inviting warm look and feel to it that you can't get with any other type of finish that I've seen.

As to the other question about lacquering the soundboard. It is certainly an option, but you'd really want to do the lacquering first, as any hint of wax prior to spraying is just going to be a world of trouble.

[vandenboom]

Allen wrote:
I put on 2 coats a day, and hit them first with some coarse cloth to buff them up, then after 2 coats I hit them with a 1000 grit sponge pad that was pretty worn out.

Allen - I have got 5 coats on a dread neck and it looks and feels great.
In finishing, how long would you leave it to cure before final sanding, polishing and use? Secondly, how fine would you go beyond 1000 grit sponge pad?
John FM suggested he might try micromesh next time. I have a set of that - is it worth it or is there no point going beyond, say 1200, on this oil/wax finish?
Frank

[Allen]

I never bother with Micro Mesh as it's just too bloody expensive for what it does.

Up here it was a week or more for the finish to get fairly dry and hard, but couldn't say what you'll experience in a colder and less humid enviroment.

As for how fine you want to go, that really depends on you. I like the satiny look of the super fine sponge at 1000 - 1200. Then just a furnish up with an old cotton t-shirt.



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