Quiz...

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Hesh1956
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Quiz...

Post by Hesh1956 » Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:04 am

OK here is a bit of a quiz for you. :)

Below is a picture of one of my nuts... and if you recall another recent thread with the half pencil trick. The half pencil is used to register off the top of the frets and make a line on the face of the nut indicating the height of the frets.

Here is the quiz question: So why then when cutting nut slots and cutting them correctly will some of the slots break the line drawn on the nut face and even be below the line?

Image

The first correct answer wins a tub of Kangaroo lard.... :D

Now for extra credit considering your answer to the above question explain how this concept relates to a zero-fret?

Thanks! :)

pat foster
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Post by pat foster » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:44 am

Umm..... because you went too far?:D

Pat

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WaddyT
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Post by WaddyT » Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:00 am

Because there is no tension on the neck and the truss rod is set to dead flat when setting up originally. When strings are put on and the truss rod is adjusted, the attitude of the nut, relative to the frets will change slightly. The induced bow created by the string tension is why a zero fret works.
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jeffhigh
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Post by jeffhigh » Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:24 am

My guess would be that the stiffness of the strings does not allow them to immediately conform to the change of angle at the nut face, so they go up briefly above the fret level, giving slightly more clearance above the first fret.
Probably no implications for the zero fret arrangement since you are not normally giving as much change in angle.
Last edited by jeffhigh on Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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sebastiaan56
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Post by sebastiaan56 » Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:26 am

make mine fifths........

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Allen
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Post by Allen » Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:27 am

I'm pretty sure that Waddy has it well nutted out.
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Rod True
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Post by Rod True » Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:37 am

Leave it to a fellow american to figure out why one guys nut slot is lower than the other :twisted:
"I wish one of the voices in your head would tell you to shut the hell up." - Warren De Montegue

Hesh1956
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Post by Hesh1956 » Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:21 am

Waddy's answer is a good one but not the correct answer in this case. The truss rod is engaged with a slight degree of back bow. I do see how Waddy could be right but the major cause of the slots being lower than the fret height follows:

Jeff is correct - congrats Jeff!!! :cl :cl :cl

With an angled back headstock (this one is 15 degrees) the strings are ramped upward to the nut slots. When the nut ends at the face of the nut and the strings leave the slot the strings will no longer be at the 15 degree angle and instead will conform into the direction and plane of the saddle + nut slot. But... right where the strings leave the nut slot there is a bending that occurs in order to change the angle to now meet the saddle. This very slight bend is why nut slots may be cut below the fret height and still not cause any buzzing.

The composition and stiffness of individual strings will impact this too. In the case of the nut pictured all of the nut slots are cut correctly. In fact a couple of them could be cut a thou or two deeper but I chickened out since at 52 years old I can't see shit anymore... :D

Now if you understand what I just wrote above and translate this thinking to the case of the zero fret you can see how this very same thing happens there too although perhaps not to the same degree because the angle behind the zero fret at the head stock may not be as much as 15 degrees and or the nut distributes the transition from the headstock angle to the fret board angle in conjunction with the zero fret. Whew - that was a long sentence...

The first time I noticed this I initially thought that I had cut the slots too low or the slots were imperfect and the string was not sitting at the bottom of the slots. I asked David Collins if I had screwed up, again... :D , and he explained the above to me. It was a teachable moment but without a screw up... :D

Thanks everyone! :)

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Kim
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Post by Kim » Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:53 am

Good post thanks Hesh. 8)

Cheers

Kim

seeaxe
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Post by seeaxe » Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:35 pm

I'm sure theres a joke here somewhere about Hesh having some of his nuts lower than others and only half the lead left in his pencil, however, its late over here in NZ.
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Post by jeffhigh » Sat Aug 01, 2009 8:51 pm

Saturday night and no lard yet, what's a boy to do?

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Lillian
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Post by Lillian » Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:44 am

jeffhigh wrote:Saturday night and no lard yet, what's a boy to do?
Ah, use olive oil?

Hesh1956
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Post by Hesh1956 » Sun Aug 02, 2009 8:01 am

Lillian wrote:
jeffhigh wrote:Saturday night and no lard yet, what's a boy to do?
Ah, use olive oil?
Oh my I just laughed so hard I nearly threw up..... :D :lmao :lmao :lmao

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Taffy Evans
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Post by Taffy Evans » Sun Aug 02, 2009 9:14 am

I did not read all the responses before this submission just so as not to influence my answer [I'm in late again]. What my first thought was is the the pencil does not follow the projection of the strings to the saddle top, it follows the lay of the fret tops. Maybe????
Taff

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