Selling Instruments (and Protecting Ourselves)

[Pete Brown]

Reading the current thread concerning finish problems alerts me to the fact that when selling our guitars on spec, potentially not meeting the buyer in the process, we don't have an opportunity to discuss care and maintenance issues face to face, or to set the ground rules where responsibility for future repairs or other problems is concerned.

We're left with the option of providing some form of written advice attached to or included with the instrument when it's sold, not only to help the owner look after the instrument, but as a disclaimer to protect ourselves.

A few things spring to mind immediately:

• Recommended string guage
  Recommended cleaning and polishing products and their use
  The need to avoid extremes of temperature and humidity
  Products with the capacity to harm the instrument finish, e.g., insect repellants, perfumes, anti-perspirants, etc.

What advice do/would YOU provide and what form does/would it take?

[hilo_kawika]

Hi Pete,

When I was making and selling instruments for a (modest) living, I did two things to insure customer and instrument compatibility:

First, each instrument came with a limited lifetime warranty. That is if there were any defects in materials or workmanship that I would repair such defects at no cost to the buyer, while I was still actively pursuing a career as a luthier.

Second, I included a cover letter explaining what the finish on the instrument was, and how to care for it. I included a wiping cloth with the instrument. I also included a humidifier with instruction as to how to use it during drier winter months. I kept my shop at 45-55% relative humidity during the building process, but humidities less that 15-20% can be pretty killing for some instruments. The instruments also came with two sets of strings (Savarez Alliance standard tension reds) which I hoped that the user would continue to use.

In that only a very few percent of the many hundreds of instruments ever came back for repairs - and nearly all of these were finish issues - A POX ON FRENCH POLISH! - I suggest that the cover letter and included materials had a positive effect on the instrument care by each owner.

aloha,

Dave Hurd
http://www.ukuleles.com

[Pete Brown]

Dave, thanks for some great information - it's just what I was looking for.

I am tempted to go a bit further than supplying spare sets of strings and hoping the new owner takes the hint though! I can even recall seeing a picture of someone's guitar label where the text "Light or medium guage strings only!" appeared. That's a bit extreme to my mind, but I'm certainly leaning towards including that suggestion somewhere on any printed material that accompanies my instruments.

[hilo_kawika]

Hi Pete,

I would go the extra distance and include the information on the printed material.

As I'm sure you are aware, there are at least two reasons for noting the string tension range for the instruments you make and wish to sell:

First, you've optimized the top for a certain range of string tensions (and the resulting bridge torques on the top); heavier gauge strings will put more stress and strain on the top.

Second, the compensation point for each string will in all likelihood change if you change the string gauges - so now the instrument won't note out.

If the buyer doesn't follow your instructions, at least you have made a good faith effort to educate and inform them.

"You can always tell a musician, but you can't tell them much".

aloha,

Dave Hurd
www.ukuleles.com

[Hesh1956]

Now you know why the factories over brace their instruments..... And even that doesn't stop some folks from damaging them by leaving them in a black car's trunk in long term parking at LAX where the in case temps can exceed 130F......

In addition to an instruction manual it's a good idea to place all of your sales terms and warranty info and "expectations" on your web site too. A physical manual can get lost or someone can deny that they received one. A more public and always available description of the message that you want to have known is something that can be pointed to in a dispute.

Many Luthiers warranty their guitars for their life "as a practicing Luthier" which is a good idea too so no one is coming at you when you are toothless and wearing a diaper..... If they do you can always claim dementia set in and you thought that you were a monkey in a zoo and that is why you threw feces at them......

One pro that I know will not sell to everyone. He is careful to attempt to determine in advance if the prospective client has the ability to understand the care and feeding of a high-end musical instrument.

At the end of the day the best thing that we can do is to build our instruments as best as we can regardless of the economic impact. Instruments are usually easier to repair than reputations.......

[Pete Brown]

Hesh, you can always be counted on to offer wise counsel - thanks!

[Allen]

"You can always tell a musician, but you can't tell them much".

aloha,

Dave Hurd
www.ukuleles.com

I know that bloke....he knows everything. Must be 120 years old for all the things he's done, and is just a total PITA. I wouldn't sell him an instrument even if it meant I didn't eat for a month.

Good tips. I'm going to have to put some thought to this. While I have no problem whatsoever repairing something that genuinely falls under workmanship or product failure, I do get my back up when there is some obvious abuse, and mistreatment, or down right stupidity that comes back as a warranty claim.

Do those of you that have a lot of instruments out have much problem with this?

[Hesh1956]

Hesh, you can always be counted on to offer wise counsel - thanks!

I wouldn't go that far...... But you Pete just made a new friend!! Thanks!!!

[hilo_kawika]

Pete, I would add one more post-script.

For both sales and repairs, I would always offer to explain why a repair was necessary (and how to avoid such an accident if possible in the future) and/or why a particular set of care instructions was necessary for a new instrument.

Most folks, having made a significant investment in an instrument or not wanting to have to do the same repair again, really do want to know how to care for their instrument and are interested in such a discussion.

Those that aren't interested are the ones to watch out for.

aloha,

Dave Hurd
www.ukuleles.com

[Pete Brown]

Dave, thanks for those thoughts.

I sold a few instruments some years ago and was almost certainly caught up in the excitement of it all and didn't consider the potential for repairs (and conflict) in the future. I have been lucky I guess, and haven't seen those instruments since.

Being older and (marginally) wiser now, I'm almost in dread at the thought of instruments being returned for whatever reason. If Rick Turner is to be believed, a background in repair is almost obligatory if we sell our instruments and are placed in the position of having to honour the agreements made at the time of the sale. However, while Rick's comments are always noteworthy, I'm not sure I agree entirely in this case. Depending on the warranty issue, perhaps it's feasible that we honour those agreements by engaging a repair guru to carry out the work on our behalf. Repair is a totally different kettle of fish from construction and as I have neither the desire nor the experience to carry out repair work, that would seem to be the only strategy which would protect the owner's interests as well as my own.

Just thinking aloud.

[James Mc]

I don’t see the problem with putting a string recommendation on the label. If it has been built for light strings then why not say so, I know that I’ve puzzled over what strings to use on a few guitars over the years. I’ve also seen a few nice old classicals stuffed by idiots putting steel strings on them. So I’d consider a string recommendation a customer service.

Just once I’d like to pick up a secondhand hand made guitar and see a string rec on the label. ‘this instrument was built for optimal performance with _____ strings.â€

[Kim]

That thought reveals an interesting situation indeed Pete, sort of paying for the love.

With few exceptions, it seems to be the experience of those who build and sell on a more regular basis that when all things are considered into the equation, time (paid at below the minimum hourly rate), material, tools, consumables, utilities, etc, etc, etc, there is little to no money in building and selling truly handcrafted instrument.

As repairs and set-ups remain the only profitable area of the craft, a lot of builders find themselves turning their hand to this aspect in order to subsidise their passion to build. I think it would be somewhat bewildering for a luthier in just such circumstance to find himself repairing another builders warranty work. I could just see the bloke standing at his bench looking a lot like my avatar, wondering, "how does he do it, 'how' does he do it??...Hmm, must still have his day job, lucky bugger"

Cheers

Kim

[Pete Brown]

Yes indeed Kim, I still have my day job. As I'm self-employed, however, when work slows or stalls altogether, as it has at the moment, I find myself with the luxury of time to spend on guitar building, hopefully with the prospect of subsidising my annual income in the process while I seek new employment opportunities more lucrative than lutherie!

Skimming through the latest Stew-Mac catalogue yesterday, it boggles the mind to contemplate the expense of setting up to do repairs. Engaging someone else, hopefully on an infrequent basis, would surely be the less expensive alternative.

[DarwinStrings]

Hi Pete

I am interested to know what sort of problems you think might be the sort of future repairs that you feel you would be liable for when it comes to your guitars?

Jim

You can reason with reasonable people you can't reason with unreasonable people.

[Pete Brown]

Jim, my main area of concern - as my recent posts indicate - is with the finish. Nothing I've built for my own use has displayed a problem in any respect, but then I'm pretty careful with my guitars and I'm not a working musician who exposes their instruments to mud, blood, beer and sweat (or over-exuberant groupies!)

As for what I feel I could be liable for, I would quote Allen above who makes reference to "workmanship or product failure". That's a pretty inclusive and general description, but I would guess it includes finish deterioration outside of what one would consider normal wear and tear, cracks, popped braces, failed glue joints, etc, etc.

With due care, and assuming we don't go commercial before we truly believe we're ready to do so, you would think there would be little cause for concern, however, I always think it's good policy to consider the worst-case scenario and be prepared to deal with it. I read on the OLF that some luthiers are prepared to bear the cost of a repair even if the owner is obviously at fault, weighing the cost they incur against the potential for bad press. Who'd be a luthier?

Others who have already gone down this path would of course be better qualified to offer an opinion. I hope they can chime in.

[Kim]

Sorry Pete,

My comments were not directed at you, rather at the ridiculous situation which sees a persons love, skill and dedication to a craft amount to little more than just another bill, no matter how good their end product. I find this fact very uninspirational.

One can easily understand the popular use of CNC components such as pre-made necks and bridges etc to try and cut down the labour and increase viability. But at what stage does one cease being a builder and turn into an assembly line worker? And if that is a point worth considering, so to is the validity of calling yourself a builder worthy of on selling your instruments if you don't have the experience and confidence to repair what you have created and this may also raise the brow of any future client who becomes aware of this situation.

If someone came back to you with one of your guitars and the truss rod had failed. You can't be 'sure' the customer snapped the head off through over tightening and see no evidence of any twisting at the broken rod head that would support that theory. The customer, with whom you built a good repore during the build process, swears he didn't even come close to over tightening, "it just failed". You like the guy and certainly don't want to call him a liar and it's no good looking to the rod supplier to pay as the most you will get from them is a replacement rod. How much do you think that would cost you to out source?

Your point regarding the cost to set up for repair work is valid if you were to fill your shop with everything Stewmac have to offer and recommend, the cost would indeed be horrendous. But you don't need to do that, Taffy Evens and David Hurd are perfect examples of what I am talking about. These guys may look at a catalogue and adapt an idea to a task at hand but they probably don't buy any repair jigs from them, just basic tools like nut files and such. One other advantage of doing your own repairs is that the experience gained will not only make you a better builder, it will also help you determine more accurately those occasions when the customer is bullshiting you.

Cheers

Kim

[Pete Brown]

Kim, thanks for your thoughts which I will chew over carefully.

As depressing as it might be, my initial response, and an approach I would recommend to any Aussie contemplating lutherie as an income-producing enterprise is to follow this link:
http://seek.com.au/

[Kim]

I read on the OLF that some luthiers are prepared to bear the cost of a repair even if the owner is obviously at fault, weighing the cost they incur against the potential for bad press. Who'd be a luthier?

Hey Pete,

Here's a scenario for ya. Just imagine that bloke with the busted truss rod was one of the rarest species on earth, yep that's right, a muso with lots of money and everyone liked him Not only that, but everyone who liked hearing him play and wanted to be like him also had lots of money and you could attribute 5 top end commissions directly to his referrals since he took delivery of your handcrafted instrument just 18 month ago...Somehow I think your sight would blurr the moment you even thought you could see a bit of twisting in the steel of that broken rod head, I reckon most would turn, smile and say, 'she's right mate, sorry this happened I'll fix it for ya. We'll see if we can find ya a stronger one this time"

Cheers

Kim

[DarwinStrings]

http/:seek.com.au

Jim